Large scale imports of bees into Scotland

[Pete L]

That's a heck of a lot of queens to graft and get mated. Particularly with the weather we're often faced with.

And to have ready in the early spring, along with the quantity of bees to make up nucs or packages to replace losses,and prevent the need for imports/packages. The queens would need to be over wintered, which is no problem at all, but i doubt for the same sort of prices that imported queens cost.

[drumgerry]

I'd be happy to see imports banned tomorrow. And we just deal with the fallout. If that entails becoming more realistic with what we can achieve with the bees then so be it. If that entails beekeepers getting off their arses and raising their own queens so much the better. Right now with imported queens a couple of clicks of a mouse away there's no motivation to the lazy beekeeper!

[Neils]

I'd be happy to see imports banned tomorrow. And we just deal with the fallout. If that entails becoming more realistic with what we can achieve with the bees then so be it. If that entails beekeepers getting off their arses and raising their own queens so much the better. Right now with imported queens a couple of clicks of a mouse away there's no motivation to the lazy beekeeper!

Gerry, I agree with your previous post, but right now banning imports I just don't see to be enforceable. I think there needs to be a whole attitude shift and/or change in outlook.

Could that money have leased land on a balaeric or greek island that UK stocks could be raised on? is overwintering Nucs really not an option? This year my nucs have been a disaster in addition to my main hives. I'm going to persevere because I don't want imported bees by any definition, but mine are a hobby. If I scaled my numbers up to commercial levels this would be a total disaster and I'd need bees now, now, now.

[drumgerry]

So we just let the commercial guys set the tone of everything? If they can't sustain their operations from within the resources available to them in these islands then it's them who should be changing their practices in my opinion. So they lose X hundred colonies in the winter - could it be that their imported bees aren't suitable for our climate? And then they bring in more to replace them and the cycle goes on. Something needs to change. And I don't mean huge subsidies to allow them to import even more bees.

I think raising UK bees in the Med would be doomed to failure. After all what we need are locally adapted bees.

And overwintering nucs needn't be a disaster in an ordinary winter/spring. Even in this one I've brought a few of my own 2012 nucs through. With the easy way out available of imports there's simply not the motivation for the commercial guys to do the same on a bigger scale.

[Neils]

I think the commercial guys will set the tone for the simple reason that they overtly make money.

The med idea I'm still not sure I see the problem with, but it takes organisation. A US queen breeder raised 500,000 + queens a year and gives a discount to those who send back the 10 best queens in their stock. Why can't that idea be adopted? as a breeder 'I' sell you a marked queen, end of second season you send it back to my med, isolated island so that packages/nucs/queens can be raised ready for spring.

I've never bought a bee since I took over the site I have at the moment, all my stocks are locally raised, some better than others, but I do this for a hobby and I struggle against other hobbyist buying in queens/Nucs from wherever has them available or the best adverts at any given time.

A ban on imports is never going to work because they have bees available when people want them. What you need are enough people raising queens, overwintering them, whatever, ready for April/May prepared to undercut the import market rather than impose a premium for local stock for it not to be worthwhile importing bees and we are a million miles away from that. Even the south UK bees that Scotland is buying are still largely imported.

[gavin]

When I'm made Prime Minister of Scotland some time soon after September 2014, one of my first acts will be to bring in the Sustainable Scottish Beekeeping Regulations 2015. These will, in essence, bring about:

A ten-year transition period at the end of which imports of bee and queens into Scotland will be prohibited. One exception: licenced propagators in partner countries (England included), if they can meet certain requirements:

- the Scottish provence of breeding stock and suitable isolation for mating sites
- the health of bees including virus and other pathogen testing for freedom from non-indigenous disease
- tracking systems to ensure traceability and veracity of claims made

Obviously, the use of public funds to support unsustainable practices in beekeeping will cease. However public funds will be available to encourage the sustainability of beekeeping in Scotland in line with Scotland's acknowledgement of the importance of the Food and Drink Sector. How will this happen?

First of all, those active in commercial activities in beekeeping will be invited to subscribe to a new Sustainable Beekeeping Charter, drawn up in collaboration with the more progressive actors in the sector. The charter will place requirements on beekeepers to follow professional standards in bee management including feeding and provision with adequate forage and aggressive measures to almost eliminate foulbrood in affected operations. It will also establish maximum stocking rates for popular beekeeping areas. Those subscribing to the charter will agree to keep only bees derived from near-native types from bees in Scotland. These will be bred stocks (see below), will not have to be of high Amm purity but will be probably selected from the best near-native stocks still held by commercial beekeepers.

The Charter will also place obligations on the beekeepers participating to use only EU-approved bee medicines, and to adhere to the highest standards of Varroa and Nosema control.

The Charter will enable participating beekeepers to use the new Scottish Sustainable Beekeeping Chartermark, and it would be anticipated that the Mark would gain favour with consumers and become sought-after by supermarkets.

The Scottish Government will support these activities by giving grants for start-up bee breeders and bee raising partnerships (both of which are likely to involve commercial beekeepers), will provide a subsidy for equipment to permit over-wintering of nucs (ie polystyrene nucleus boxes) by beekeepers and will provide a subsidy for Varroa medicaments - for participants in the Charter only, of course. Spare over-wintered nucleus stocks may, of course, be sold on when not required to keep up the agreed number of stocks for each operator. Breeding from local stocks will aim to produce stable, productive, healthy and gentle stocks from local Amm-biased mixes. Whether such breeding would be a supported private sector activity, a social enterprise (perhaps a cooperative) or performed by a public body is open to debate. The SBA and Local Associations would be expected to encourage amateur beekeepers to register for this Chartermark and gain the benefits of doing so.

In parallel, there would be funding to establish modern local honey extraction facilities and perhaps a touring mobile facility so that hobby beekeepers can make the transition to semi-commercial activity using food handling procedures of the highest standards for local craft-scale production and sale.

And, of course, there would have to be investment in the detection of unapproved imports of bees and queens, and appropriate fines to act as a deterrent.

[prakel]

A ban on imports is never going to work because they have bees available when people want them. What you need are enough people raising queens, overwintering them, whatever, ready for April/May prepared to undercut the import market rather than impose a premium for local stock for it not to be worthwhile importing bees and we are a million miles away from that. Even the south UK bees that Scotland is buying are still largely imported.

Ah, the crux of the matter. Undercutting the import market.

But why? This seems to me to be a false arguement. Sure, lots of imported queens are sold in the UK but how many average beekeepers actually import the stock themselves? Most 'local guys' probably buy from a handfull of companies who do the importing and then double (or more) the price before selling on. Sure you can buy two queens direct at +/- 15 euros each then you add the health cert and you're probably paying +/- 30 euro each.

All that actually needs to be done on a local level is to offer good quality bees at a price similar to that charged by the UK importers. This of course won't stop the big guys buying in hundreds of queens but it would be a sound start at local level.

[Adam]

Gavin as Prime Minister. Now there's a thought!

One problem with imported bees (apart from crossing with the locals) is that they may well be unsuitable for the Scottish weather and not survive in high numbers over winter. One thing you could say is that the fittest colonies survived. Maybe these should be bred from - better for the long-term.

[Jon]

One thing you could say is that the fittest colonies survived. Maybe these should be bred from - better for the long-term.

I don't think it is that simple - due to the effect of heterosis/hybrid vigour.
if you cross AMM with Carnica you may well get offspring which is hardier than either parent.

If you select this as your breeder stock on the basis of its survival the effect is likely to be lost going forward.
As in F1 hybrid seed.

I think it is imperative to select the hardiest stock within race, eliminating short term effects caused by heterosis.

[drumgerry]

I think the commercial guys will set the tone for the simple reason that they overtly make money.

But do they Neil? And if so how much? How much is the commercial beekeeping sector worth to the Scottish economy that it can justify such subsidies? How many jobs are we saving here? MBC mentioned the salmon farming industry Vs salmon angling and I think the big difference between salmon farming and commercial beekeeping is that it actually does provide jobs in areas where there would otherwise be no jobs. Not that I agree with their pollution of Scottish sea lochs which is linked to the plummeting of seatrout stocks but I can understand the political reality of it. Commercial beekeeping not so much. From what I've read of Murray's operation most of his labour is Eastern European migratory workers.

So I think the subsidy is coming from a "let's save the bees" perspective rather than an economic one. And if so my opinion is that it's based on faulty information which the politicians are getting. Which could be corrected by proper lobbying if we could be arsed to do it.

If imports were to stop (and I don't think purely economic arguments apply here) we'd all have to do for ourselves. Even the commercial guys! But they/we need not to have the choice to import. Incidentally isn't it the case that the UK (as it is at the moment!) can close the borders to imports from the mainland when there's some health concern in the agricultural sector and so not fall foul of EU competition law? As was done recently with Ash trees?

Gavin - where do I sign up?! And I'll vote for you! If your Sustainable Charter is a serious idea you should draw it up in reality and just think of the publicity we could generate with it!