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Thread: Ban the 'environmentalist' opposition . Live a quiet life?

  1. #1

    Default Ban the 'environmentalist' opposition . Live a quiet life?

    Since you lot have banned Stromnessbees,Eric,Graham, JTF etc. (and where's Karol gone?); I guess you're all happier in your cocoons.

    You really should look in a mirror and decide what you stand for.

    This is meant as a constructive suggestion.
    Last edited by corrector (JTF4); 14-04-2013 at 11:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    If you mean Karol who posts on BKF, he has never posted here. Neither has Graham White if that is the Graham you mean.
    Eric McC is not banned either as far as I know but has elected not to post recently.

    Maybe you meant to post this on beekeeping forum as most of those names are banned there apart from karol.

  3. #3
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corrector View Post
    Since you lot have banned Stromnessbees,Eric,Graham, JTF etc. (and where's Karol gone?); I guess you're all happier in your cocoons.

    You really should look in a mirror and decide what you stand for.

    This is meant as a constructive suggestion.
    What Jon wrote with the addition (just for you, corrector) that I know what I stand for; don't need mirrors or any environmental campaigners screaming in my ear. Which is why I don't bother hanging out on bee forums much anymore. I'd rather wait for the monthly magazines to drop through the letter box.

  4. #4

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    Hi Corrector

    Bananarama put it best when they sang "It's not what you say it's the way that you say it......that's what gets results"

    I like a chat about environmental issues though I'm not an expert
    Sometimes though, claims get made about mass wipe outs of all bees by various things CCD,GM,etc and now neonics

    There are good arguments for controlling the use of chemicals and people should raise this here and elsewhere in the right sections of the forum
    Unfortunately bees have a high public profile so lot's of posters try to use that profile to claim all bees are being, or will be wiped out, then they post in every thread

    Also it's unfair to expect the SBA to lead campaigns on an environmental issue where there is no evidence of harm to bees
    There are organisations such as Friends of the Earth who are better placed to lead these campaigns

  5. #5
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    There are organisations such as Friends of the Earth who are better placed to lead these campaigns
    Those of us who do consider ourselves environmentalists are exasperated at the diversion of the effort of mainstream organisations (FoE, SWT, Buglife) from addressing the real main threats to biodiversity in the UK - habitat loss and degradation, climate change and fluctuation, urban encroachment, over-tidy farming (both organic and conventional, see first on this list) - to fighting this campaign that claims that massive environmental damage is being done by what are probably some of the safest pesticides around, when used appropriately.

    Anyway, 'corrector' leaves an internet trace that shows he has the same relatively uncommon ISP (shared with Eric) as Doris' non-beekeeper partner on Orkney. If it isn't Johnthefarmer I'm a Dutchman. At the very least it is someone here to issue challenges rather than discuss beekeeping.

    Jon was right. The only people banned here are a long list of non-beekeeping spammers, and:

    Doris Fischler, ex-secretary of the Orkney Beekeepers.
    Doris' partner, John L.

    Both were banned for making accusations against individuals here. Neither will be allowed back.

    Eric was off our list for a year and is now able to post but chooses not to. Karol has never posted here to my knowledge. Neither has Graham White. He has such a temper I doubt that he would last long if he did.

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    I just so love new posters who start on environmental issues.

    How to advertise - in big letters- you are a one concern poster...

    Single issue posters tend to be boringly unimaginative, and unconcerned with beekeeping.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corrector (JTF4) View Post
    I guess you're all happier in your cocoons.
    I am happier reading as much as I can from reliable independent sources and forming an opinion accordingly.
    Of course anyone who writes or publishes anything which suggests that neonicotinoids are unlikely to be the main problem facing bees will be vilified and accused of being a shill.
    Most of the leading bee researchers are on the list at this point

    Dennis Van Engelsdorp
    Jerry Bromenshenk
    Maryanne Frazer
    James Cresswell

    All people who have dedicated their careers to looking at bee health issues whose experimental work has led them to stop and say, hold on a minute, things are not black and white.

    The ban the neonicotinoid people start with the answer (ban the neonics) then run around scavenging for snippets of information, usually from the press or a campaign site, which back up the answer they started with. There is no respect for science at all except where a conclusion happens to favour the answer they started with.


    That is why debate is generally futile and it is worth checking out Calum's flow chart at moments like this.

    Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg
    Last edited by Jon; 15-04-2013 at 10:27 AM.

  8. #8

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    For anyone who wants to read more on the Neonic debate in amongst actual beekeeping matters (weird eh?!) can I recommend they subscribe to BEE-L. Strangely as I recommend it I'm going to have to resubscribe as I've been kicked off by the server because my email client is playing up.

    And it's becoming somewhat embarrassing to see the desperation with which JTF (in his many incarnations) is trying to get back on to the forum. You'd think he could take the hint!

  9. #9
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry View Post
    And it's becoming somewhat embarrassing to see the desperation with which JTF (in his many incarnations) is trying to get back on to the forum. You'd think he could take the hint!
    Shame he didn't take my hint several months ago to moderate the b"$$"%!s and tell us something from his undoubted knowledge and experience of organic agriculture. That would have interested me and probably (Heaven forbid) given him greater credibility when (as he would) he continued with his ill thought and badly presented pesticide arguements. Of course, he didn't even reply to my suggestion because he was too busy trying to score points against other members; so trapped by tunnel vision that he just couldn't see the opportunity to stand back and take a breather.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Good point as there are a lot of posters here who grow stuff on allotments or smallholdings so the interest level is high.

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