A battle is raging....apparently!

[Jon]

It's just his usual stuff claiming there is a holocaust that only exists in his own universe.
Did you see the petition he started yesterday about Amazon?

Neonicotinoid insecticides have killed more than 10 million bee colonies worldwide since 1994.
They have killed billions of bumblebees, butterflies, ladybirds, hoverflies, beetles and earthworms.
They are the prime suspect in the death of over millions of birds in Europe and the USA -
by direct poisoning or by the eradication of almost all insects and worms that birds feed their chicks with.
No insects = no skylarks. No worms - no blackbirds.

That article he wrote suggested that the region he lives in is like some post apocalyptic wasteland.

The real problem in a wider sense is monoculture and habitat loss.
This total obsession with a ban on neonicotinoid pesticides is diverting funding to the wrong place and leading to a swathe of misleading articles in the press.

This all reminds me of the zealot who claimed that the MMR vaccine caused autism and his scaremongering lead to parents deciding not to vaccinate their children.
the general public don't have a clue and they think they are doing the right thing following the advice of those who shout the loudest, especially when the press take up the case on their behalf.
Some local paper in Wales got behind the anti MMR campaign and the current problems can be traced directly back to this.
Lives will be lost over that shameful campaign.

[drumgerry]

I'll try again with you worm. I prefer to discuss things civilly and if that's the way it's going to be then fair enough. I do think you owe Trog an apology for the arrogance with which you stated that your posts are more important than his/hers (sorry I don't know if Trog is a he or she).

To answer your question about Graham White's article - I refuse to read it. He's been a troll the length and breadth of just about every beekeeping forum the world over for a number of years. In the process he has defamed a number of people whom I respect. So I won't willingly read anything he has to say. He doesn't strike me as a reasonable, rational sort of person and I don't feel the need to give his thoughts any credence by reading them. Too much water has gone under the bridge I'm afraid.

[Jon]

He is also trolling on several gardening forums about his favourite topic - neonicotinoids.
And he thinks all the forums are controlled by stooges of 'Big Ag', gardening forums and bee forums alike.

[Trog]

I'm so glad someone's brought up the MMR scare. Too many people swayed by bad science and a media bandwaggon and it's the weans who are paying for adult stupidity.

Drumgerry, I'm a lady wren but rather glad you can't tell that from my posts

[worm (JTF3)]

ok. If it is the case that oak trees in Kew Gardens are being treated with neonics, and I've heard many of London's other trees are also routinely injected by contracted teams,what do you think?
Is it true? If so, is it justified? Or what?
Similar question for park lawns, golf courses and all our gardens?

[Jon]

You would need to check the tree thing with someone who is a reliable source.
I have caught Graham telling porkies so many times you would not believe it.
Don't take that stuff at face value. Ring Kew and check with someone competent to answer your questions if you are concerned about it.

It is true that neonicotinoids are now pretty ubiquitous.
The issue is whether they are doing harm.
the seed treated stuff like OSR or maize seems to be a complete red herring as far as I can see.
I am wary about treatment of trees as that can lead to high ppb levels of pesticide which are quite persistent. The citrus trees are a big problem for bees now in Florida.
Check the facts rather than speculating.

[worm (JTF3)]

It is true that neonicotinoids are now pretty ubiquitous.
.

To the extent that it is now seemingly impossible to run any field trial in the UK with a control free of neonics because they are everywhere!
'
That,in itself, has to be worrying.

[Jon]

The best trial regarding oil seed rape is the one which has been running for 10-15 years worldwide.
The bees perform well on it including those on the 7.5 million hectares in Canada.
The problem is what comes next.
If there is limited other forage when the rape goes over the bees will have to be moved of they will not get good nutrition.
Bees need a varied source of pollen for about 8-9 months of the year.

[worm (JTF3)]

Bees need a varied source of pollen for about 8-9 months of the year.

Orkney bees are lucky to get 6 months!

Are they really quite happy in Canada about the amount of treated OSR?
(My sister is a chief environmental officer in Nova Scotia. I should probably ask her.)

[worm (JTF3)]

That article he wrote suggested that the region he lives in is like some post apocalyptic wasteland.

.

He really didn't say that.
He lauded the diversity in his own area generally but contrasted that with what could be found both in more heavily farmed areas and some urban locations.
Believe me,I will try and 'check the facts rather than speculating'. I've been doing it for years...