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Thread: A battle is raging....apparently!

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neils View Post
    People who have time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of people who have work to do.
    Well, I started early,worked all day, and am still prepared to post now. Zealot, idiot, call me what you will, you should read Graham's piece.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by worm View Post
    And it's you who criticises me for posting irrelevant stuff here!
    Sorry the extent of my life is far from irrelevant and certainly it's far too short to be engaging in pointless round the houses arguments with you Eric. I wonder if it seems coincidental to anyone else that the tone of the forum has been somewhat compromised since your return.
    Last edited by drumgerry; 07-04-2013 at 12:44 AM.

  3. #13

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    worm is not eric. it's a nematode with attitude...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Hi Eric
    I read it a few days ago when he posted it elsewhere.
    It is not a world I recognize as my garden and my allotment are full of birdlife.
    I saw a pair of goldcrests on the allotment last week. Lovely wee birds.
    I have bullfinches in the garden waiting to have a go at the buds on my fruit trees.
    Starlings and sparrows are in decline they say but I have loads in my garden as well so things seem not too bad here.
    Graham's piece was nicely written but I stopped taking him seriously a long time ago as everything he puts forward is to further his anti neonicotinoid campaign irrespective of inconvenient facts which sometimes get in the way. He is not an impartial commentator.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Hi Eric
    I read it a few days ago when he posted it elsewhere.
    It is not a world I recognize as my garden and my allotment are full of birdlife.
    I saw a pair of goldcrests on the allotment last week. Lovely wee birds.
    I have bullfinches in the garden waiting to have a go at the buds on my fruit trees.
    Starlings and sparrows are in decline they say but I have loads in my garden as well so things seem not too bad here.
    Graham's piece was nicely written but I stopped taking him seriously a long time ago as everything he puts forward is to further his anti neonicotinoid campaign irrespective of inconvenient facts which sometimes get in the way. He is not an impartial commentator.
    So, do you say that Graham's observations in Kew Gardens are somehow false?
    It's obviously good that you still have Goldcrests,Bullfinches etc round you, but surely you see the overall thrust of his argument?

    Kew is supposed to be where our future horticulturalists are trained for god's sake..
    Last edited by worm (JTF3); 07-04-2013 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by worm View Post
    So, do you say that Graham's observations in Kew Gardens are somehow false?
    Not false, but an inaccurate representation.

    The birds in Kew aren't captive, they can choose where they prefer to be. You can go to Kew and see no birds at all, because they've flown somewhere quieter to either do whatever they want to do. If you get there early in the day there are loads, same thing later in the evening when the crowds have gone home.

    I have a lot of birds living in, and visiting, my garden. I can see them through my windows but they vanish the moment I walk outside. If I start digging the garden I'm guaranteed to get either a robin or a blackbird under my feet, but none of the others will come near if they see human activity.

  7. #17

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    Hi worm

    I know you would call for the SBA conference to ban neonic pesticides,
    That's fair enough, but is the evidence of bee losses due to neonics strong
    When beekeepers marched on Parliament were they overstating their case even back then, claiming CCD was wiping out their bees?
    Most of the £10 million the government allocated went to other worthy causes protecting pollinators
    There are many organisations campaigning on the environment and it would seem odd if the SBA appeared not to support them
    But at the end of the day if bees are not being killed by neonics how can we call for a ban

    P.s. don't any of you guys sleep
    Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 07-04-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger View Post
    That's fair enough, but is the evidence of bee losses due to neonics strong
    DR
    If you are talking about honey bees, the evidence of harm via pollen and nectar from seed treated crops is minimal.
    7.5 million hectares of oil seed rape is grown in Canada where it forms the basis of the honey crop.
    The honey bee deaths have almost all been from planter dust from drilling maize.

    Soil drenches and foliar sprays are a problem but we have little or none of that in the UK.
    Sunflowers can be a problem but it has been noted that bees which forage exclusively on Sunflowers don't live as long anyway so that may not be exclusively a pesticide issue.

    The risks may be greater for other pollinators such as bumble bees as claimed by Dave Goulson.

    The problem to a large extent is modern agriculture.
    Even taking neonics right out of the picture, you are still left with monoculture and this is bad for bees from a nutritional point of view unless they are moved to a new site after the flowering period of the crop is over.
    People like me who don't move bees about need to locate them on sites where there is pollen and nectar available from March to October.
    In the years where I have oil seed rape nearby, that's only a bonus for one month out of the 8.
    Last edited by Jon; 07-04-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    DR

    The problem to a large extent is modern agriculture.
    People like me who don't move bees about need to locate them on sites where there is pollen and nectar available from March to October.
    In the years where I have oil seed rape nearby, that's only a bonus for one month out of the 8.
    I read about people who have all year round foraging and take their honey off once a year in August or September and just think if only I could do that.
    I'm on a 5 acre small holding which apart from the topping mower and my spuds (small patch) is left alone and I don't move the bees
    The surrounding farmland always has lots of rape every year so my whole beekeeping life is controlled by it
    The bees I have are all crossed by the migratory bees
    The bees that arrive are genetically suited to be very strong in time for rape
    The honey has to be extracted before it goes brick hard
    The crop just disappears and the bees don't like that
    The spring build up is very rapid and swarming comes early
    There is an old country estate bordering me (although migratory bees sometimes go there as well)
    On another thread the luck Russian chap showed a picture of vipers bugloss
    I though yes!! I'll have some of that! but alas wrong soil type here, too wet

  10. #20
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Most of mine are near the River Lagan which has clover, dandelion, balsam and bramble along the towpath. I also have a couple of old estates nearby as well as hundreds of suburban gardens. The estates have Lime trees willow and sycamore. I have oil seed rape in the area maybe every other year but the last couple of years it has hardly produced anything as it rained all the time.

    What do yours forage on after the rape?

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