Pesticide combination affects bees' ability to learn - comments anyone?

[Dark Bee]

DB
I think we have some differences in what's legal and what's not between the two jurisdictions north and south because of that wiggly line drawn across the island some time ago.

"Politics; the foolishness of many for the welfare of a few" - Jonathan Swift.

Samuel Johnson had an apposite comment also.

[Jon]

The Galtee queens make their way up north irrespective of any so called borders.
They must be flying at night to avoid the guards on the heavily fortified frontier which separates the two Koreas.

I doubt if our bees will be exposed to a lot of neonicotinoid via oil seed rape this year as it had been too wet to get seed into the ground.
Not sure if many are sowing seed at the moment. Unlikely I would have thought.

[gavin]

Perhaps I should also mention that coumaphos gets a mention in Dennis vanEngelsdorp et al's paper in 2009 called 'Colony Collapse Disorder: A descriptive study'.

The paper is notable for managing to find an association between a pesticide and apparent CCD cases. However, the spin merchants rarely point out that the presence of coumaphos was associated with protection from CCD rather than its enhancement. The tendency is to believe that at least some of the CCD cases were somehow related to Varroa, a beastie which doesn't enjoy coumaphos in its environment.

[prakel]

I seem to remember that coumaphos was also a principle player in the contaminated beeswax reserch which Jennifer Berry carried out a couple of years ago.


edit: http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/i...y&recordID=626

Coumaphos, an organic phosphate, is an insecticide used for the control of a wide variety of insects found on livestock. It is a cholinesterase inhibitor, which attacks the nervous system. It is used against insects that live outside the host animals, (ectoparasites) such as ticks, and mites. It was registered in this country for use in honey bee colonies under a Section 18 or emergency use registration because of the mounting resistance to fluvalinate being reported by beekeepers back in the 1990s.

[gavin]

Interesting assessment of this paper from Randy Oliver on Bee-L. I haven't read the original paper yet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The study hinges on the applied dose, in which
the authors applied solutions of the neonics at ~2.5 ppb directly to
isolated brain cells in the lab. They based these concentrations upon the
levels measured in nectar of treated crops, and cited Suchail (2004) as
justification that the neonics then translocated to the brain.

Unfortunately, the authors misinterpreted the graphs in Suchail's paper of
the actual distribution of imidacloprid in the bees' body over time! Had
they interpreted correctly, they would have noticed that no more than 5% of
the dose of imidacloprid ever reached the bees' heads (and that was with
DMSO added as a membrane-penetrating solvent). Suchail did not study the
other insecticides they tested, so the authors had no justification for the
doses applied of those products.

Bottom line, the authors' findings were based upon levels of imidacloprid
at least 20x higher than field-realistic exposure, and upon unsubstantiated
doses of coumaphos and clothianidin. Had the authors actually fed the test
bees the pesticides, and then later measured the action potentials, we may
have actually learned something!

[worm (JTF3)]

Interesting assessment of this paper from Randy Oliver on Bee-L. I haven't read the original paper yet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The study hinges on the applied dose, in which
the authors applied solutions of the neonics at ~2.5 ppb directly to
isolated brain cells in the lab. They based these concentrations upon the
levels measured in nectar of treated crops, and cited Suchail (2004) as
justification that the neonics then translocated to the brain.

Unfortunately, the authors misinterpreted the graphs in Suchail's paper of
the actual distribution of imidacloprid in the bees' body over time! Had
they interpreted correctly, they would have noticed that no more than 5% of
the dose of imidacloprid ever reached the bees' heads (and that was with
DMSO added as a membrane-penetrating solvent). Suchail did not study the
other insecticides they tested, so the authors had no justification for the
doses applied of those products.

Bottom line, the authors' findings were based upon levels of imidacloprid
at least 20x higher than field-realistic exposure, and upon unsubstantiated
doses of coumaphos and clothianidin. Had the authors actually fed the test
bees the pesticides, and then later measured the action potentials, we may
have actually learned something!

How much, would you estimate , does mess up bees' heads? 2.5 ppb .25 ppb, 25 ppb? If so, of what?
( Angels/pin heads! )
The stuff clearly buggers up bees' brains, and does worse for their larvae.
Neonics are now the most prevalent insecticide worldwide.
They are now impinging on birdlife, soillife, ourlife.

[The Drone Ranger]

I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??

[gavin]

They're insecticides, Eric, it is their job to bugger up insect brains. Some of the stuff buggers up mite brains too, and that is why beekeepers put things like fluvalinate, coumaphos, formic acid, oxalic acid and thymol into their hives. The trick is finding levels that don't damage bees.

The trouble is, a level that a whole bee tolerates (or a whole bee inside a whole colony tolerates) is not the same as a chopped off bee head will tolerate and that is not the same as an isolated bee brain removed from its head and with its protective membrane removed will tolerate. Just imagine sinking a shot of whisky down the usual hatch, and comparing that with the effect of the nip poured directly onto the exposed surface of the human brain.

If the lab results are saying one thing yet the bees foraging on that 2.5ppb stuff are perfectly happy with it and behave normally, why bother? As I've said, I'm happy to show you bees foraging, dancing, getting excited, bringing home the goodies, and generally thriving on OSR. Seeing is believing, believe me.

Oh, and I know a man who uses coumaphos, so we can cover that one too if you like. Tens of thousands of American beekeepers have used the stuff and no-one there is saying it stops the bees functioning normally.

[worm (JTF3)]

I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??

Just click on' neonicotinoid effects on bee larvae ' search.

I would say it's similar to the effect of an alcoholic or heroin addict mother on her foetus (emotive comparison eh?)

[worm (JTF3)]

I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??

something else for you to read :
http://agroecologygroup.org.uk/wp-co...ic-Goulson.pdf