SBA AGM motion on a moratorium on neonicotinoids

[The Drone Ranger]

Not so long ago borage was widely grown for its oil before the Chinese grew lots and drove the price down.

Thanks mbc that's what I was getting mixed up with there was an article in Beecraft in 2011 about it.

Re the vote on neonicotinoids it seems to have been a close one and I'm surprised that there weren't more votes.
Also that some areas where there is a lot of rape seem to be represented as wait and see or tolerant of rape
Whereas areas where there is no rape grown have the strongest opposition.

Beecraft is generally fairly balanced on most things but I sense there is some movement toward supporting a ban or reduction of some kind in the use of systemic neonic pesticides.

At a time when the abortion/pro-life camps were both on TV campaigning vehemently, I lived in London, and went to the then controversial Bodyworks Exhibition, which strangely enough was under attack from lots of factions who wanted it banned.

At the exhibition, in kilner jars, there was a series on foetal development where actual preserved babies from the earliest embro to the fully developed child were shown.

I felt at the time the best way for anyone to make an informed decision was to see the exhibition then come to their own conclusion based on their experience.

Sometimes polarising the discussion just stops anything from being decided at all.

As Leonard Rossiter put it "Who ever heard of the persecution of the apathetic by the bone idle"

[gavin]

Also that some areas where there is a lot of rape seem to be represented as wait and see or tolerant of rape
Whereas areas where there is no rape grown have the strongest opposition.

That's pretty much what I see. We had a vote in the new Perth association as a couple of the newer beekeepers had read Eric's campaigning circular and demanded a vote. After several members said their bees were fine on rape and a farmer-beekeeper intervened, the vote went 6 for and the rest of quite a full room not. Completely opposite to the Glasgow vote where those willing to be led just pay attention to the doom and gloom, and only those who think for themselves and question things have a more open mind.

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[Phil Moss]

Re reading this thread, so
Here I am . not hiding behind a forum name, but me.
Who am I , and who am I affilated to (Obviously not good at grammar).

Honours degree in Agriculture from Wye College, London University.
Post graduate student at Oxford University, funded by a Ministry of Agriculture Scholarship
Awardrd D. Phil by Oxford University (Oxford awards D.Phil, almost all other universities use the Ph. D. abbreviation)
Post Doctoral Fellow at Oxford University, funded by the Science Research Council.
Lecturer in Agricultural Botany at Reading University, salary paid by University, research funds from the Ministry of Overseas Development.
Research had been nmainly on how to introduce genes into plants so farmers did not use pesticides!!!!!
Invited to set up a lboatory in an International Institute based in India, and gave up a tenured university post (could have done very little until retirement and then paid a fat pension) for a job with no security and no pension.
ICRISAT, part of the CGIAR under the aauspices of the UN (you can google them) was/is funded by many governments and philanthropic organisations, one criterion was that all our products are to be freely available to all, with no restrictions, and we were not in the pay of any companies. In some cases our policies and actions were very much against the interests of the chemocal and other companies.
During 18 years based in India, including 18 months on asignment as a professor in USA to undertake specialist research where the facilities were better than in India, I travelled widely in the developing countries, and saw what, and how little, vast numbers of people in the world have to eat. I sometimes say I have seen more poverty than it is fair for one man to see.
I retired in 1996 as Director of Research in Cellular and Molecular Biology, continued working part time for a few years as a consultant to FAO.

I have never been funded, paid by or received any favours from any chemical company, am not a freemason or member of any secret society.

I do have the health of bees as a top prioity (read what I have written, ask any Oban beekeeper how much I do to help individuall beekeepers). I also have the reputaion of teh SBA at heatrt, as if we are seen to be heavily aganst neonics, they are banned, and bee health does not improve, our scientific integrity will be questioned (didn't they know how much damage was being done by varroa, viruses, nosemsa etcetc). Sadly, those who are writing letters to the press with 'half truths' do not have the same concern

I am not by nature a joining person, but
Member of SBA.
Member and LA sec for Oban beekeepers.
Elder and Lay Worship Leader in the Chuch of Scotland.
National Trust

In voting against the proposal, I had to follow my head as a scientist, (not my heart as one who would love to see a world without pesticides, when hunger and starvation would increase). (as Chairman of teh British Overseas Ex Services League Deccan Branch I was a regular visitor to the slums, and as a scientist who had sent plants to scientists in a certain country I was one of teh first, if not the first, foriegner to vist parts of 'that country' not open to foreign visitors. I had a political agent stck to me with super glue )!) (nearly) and won't tell you what I saw.)

I am also very aware of all the problems facing bees, some of which are IMHO far more serious than neonics. Also that there is a meting a week today where SBA will be well represented and neonics will be discussed.

I was not aware that anyone who had worked in plant research had to abstain from voting - is this true, or just another 'fact' quoted by Stromessbees and others to support their personal views?

This is not well written and my typing is atrociuos, but I have work to do.
Phil

[gavin]

Well said Phil, and thanks for taking the time to post on here. I'm sure that 95% of the SBA membership greatly appreciate what you do for the organisation but - unfortunately - the small number with strong views make a lot of noise.

[The Drone Ranger]

That was a really good post by Phil Moss.

Generally people used to be advised to avoid politics and religion in conversations.
I'm thinking of adding , GM crops, Neonics ,and Black Bees now

A middle way perhaps is not subsidising crops that require neonics (for the moment in UK)
I grow the odd potato every year but I don't plant them in the same bit of ground.
Now if I had a chemical dusting that protected the potato and let me plant them in the same ground every year would I use it?
I have to grow blight resistant spuds because I don't have a selection of fungicides like commercial growers but they are pretty good to eat
On the farms round our way they have a 3 crop rotation Grain,potatoes,Rape.
Now if I grew only potato cabbage and maize(some chance) in my rotation then it wouldn't be long before lots of pests and diseases showed up.

Subsidy for rape growing is in some ways linked to potential for bio-fuel production it would seem because nobody needs all the oil for frying chips

Phil Moss rightly points out that calling for bans could have catastrophic consequences elsewhere in the world so that's the wrong way to go.
Just incentivise the growing you want to see in UK and give funding to the least harmful option wherever possible.

would that not make a better resolution for a vote next year ?

[brothermoo]

It would sure make a good practical proposal from beekeeping associations (and other environmental lobbists) to George Osborne before the next budget.

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[Bumble]

DR, you're spot on about crop rotation, but why try to stop farmers growing OSR? I don't like it, I don't like the swathes of yellow fields, and I don't like the oil it makes but those are my personal prejudices.

I don't know any beekeepers whose bees have been hurt by having their bees on OSR, and for some it's their main honey crop. If farmers are told not to grow OSR, can you be sure they'll replace it with something that can be used by bees? If not, then what the heck are quite a lot of beekeepers going to do?

[Neils]

Thanks for taking the time to post Phil and I appreciate, from a lay position, you explaining both your background and reasoning for taking the position that you did.

[Jon]

Science and logical argument gets my support.
Freemasons, single issue campaigning and conspiracy theory should have no place in the debate other than the inherent humour value.

[Phil Moss]

If you get blight regularly, grow only earlies and second earlies (they bulk up earlier then maincrop) and cut off all the haulms as soon as you see any blight, as that cuts down the amount of blight spores in your soil.

That was a really good post by Phil Moss.

Generally people used to be advised to avoid politics and religion in conversations.
I'm thinking of adding , GM crops, Neonics ,and Black Bees now

A middle way perhaps is not subsidising crops that require neonics (for the moment in UK)
I grow the odd potato every year but I don't plant them in the same bit of ground.
Now if I had a chemical dusting that protected the potato and let me plant them in the same ground every year would I use it?
I have to grow blight resistant spuds because I don't have a selection of fungicides like commercial growers but they are pretty good to eat
On the farms round our way they have a 3 crop rotation Grain,potatoes,Rape.
Now if I grew only potato cabbage and maize(some chance) in my rotation then it wouldn't be long before lots of pests and diseases showed up.

Subsidy for rape growing is in some ways linked to potential for bio-fuel production it would seem because nobody needs all the oil for frying chips

Phil Moss rightly points out that calling for bans could have catastrophic consequences elsewhere in the world so that's the wrong way to go.
Just incentivise the growing you want to see in UK and give funding to the least harmful option wherever possible.

would that not make a better resolution for a vote next year ?