SBA AGM motion on a moratorium on neonicotinoids

[Trog]

Most likely some of both.

- And I am not joking.

Remember, we are dealing with a billion-dollar industry, they will use whichever methods they can to keep selling their poisons.

Well, Doris, I was completely unaware that women (and you have named two in your list) can now be fully-fledged freemasons. Thank you for that astonishing piece of information. I was at the AGM. Does that mean I'm a freemason, too, by default?

[I see from wikipedia that there is a form of female freemasonry but it doesn't appear to be fully accepted by the chaps in this country]

[Bumble]

With regards to connections to industry:

This point has been raised repeatedly, but to no avail.
Several prominent members of the SBA are working or have been connected to jobs in plant research. There are issues of possible influences, but I have yet to see any of them abstain from voting, as required by the rules.

Wow! That's suggesting a whole lot of nasty things.

What about people who work in supermarkets, or garden centres, or small plant nurseries that sell products to the general public? I suppose they should be excluded too, along with everybody who has a garden and isn't wholeheartedly 'organic'.

The moment you start trying to exclude people from voting because of their backgrounds or outside interests, you open a whole can of worms - and you'd probably be excluded too, because you're a vociferous international internet 'campaigner' who wants only one outcome. You only want people to think in one direction, you want them to do your bidding, you don't want them to look up research or think for themselves and make up their own minds.

Phil Moss, whose primary interest should be the health of out bees, held a passionate speech against the motion, claiming that OSR had unmissable benefits for beekeepers despite the health concerns.

It's true. For some people OSR provides their main or only honey crop. Without it they, and their bees, would get next to nothing to overwinter apart from sugar syrup.

Yes, I would like the list of attendants checked against the list of fully paid up subscriptions.
If there is a discrepancy I think we need to repeat the vote.

Do you mean you'd try to make sure there were enough 'right minded' people to make the vote go in the direction you want it to go?

[Jon]

It's true. For some people OSR provides their main or only honey crop. Without it they, and their bees, would get next to nothing to overwinter apart from sugar syrup.

7.5 million hectares of seed treated oil seed rape in Canada.
If there was a problem with that crop there would not be a colony left alive.

[gavin]

And that is largely the spring rape that I was willing to question yesterday.

[EmsE]

Id just like to say that as an SBA member I have total confidence in our President and his committee and truly believe his integrity remains in tact. In my view, by voting against the proposal, it is protecting the SBA from those who wish to hijack the association for their own personal means. The SBA as far as I know is not a campaigning or a political association and should refrain from becoming so. It's an association of bee keepers with wildly varying personal points of view. If people wish to campaign on a particular issue- good for them- they're free to do so. However, for those who chose a different stance, that view should also be respected.
I don't know Phil Moss personally, but he too gets my vote of confidence and from what I have seen of him, reading his articles in the SBA magazine etc, he certainly comes across as a level headed person with the bees welfare in mind; not the kind of person who abuses his position to shove his own personal hobby horse down people's throats.

Edit- ps- I've not known the moir library card be mandatory for voting at the AGM's I've attended (although technically you should have it with you to vote) so would have thought things were a bit odd it it had been compulsory this time.

[gavin]

The team moderating the site has discussed today's posts and are agreed that Doris has crossed the line. Given that her partner Johnthefarmer was recently banned for making accusations of corruption against a forum member, she will be very well aware why she has been banned. These bans are permanent.

She has indicated that she intends taking up the matter of the conduct of the vote with the President. That is her right, but she will find that it was done in the best way possible under the rules of the association.

Personally, I regret that she has embarrassed herself in this way on SBAi and on several other bee fora, some of which have felt obliged to restrict or prevent her posts.

OK, carry on folks but please try to be nice ....

[Trog]

Id just like to say that as an SBA member I have total confidence in our President and his committee and truly believe his integrity remains in tact. In my view, by voting against the proposal, it is protecting the SBA from those who wish to hijack the association for their own personal means. The SBA as far as I know is not a campaigning or a political association and should refrain from becoming so. It's an association of bee keepers with wildly varying personal points of view. If people wish to campaign on a particular issue- good for them- they're free to do so. However, for those who chose a different stance, that view should also be respected..

Well said, EmsE. I nearly left the SBA in the days when the magazine seemed full of nothing but anti-GM rants (whatever happened? Is GM still evil or are neonics the new bogeymen?) and certainly would leave if it became a campaigning organisation rather than one that helps us to keep bees better. As for the neonics debate, I'm not yet convinced either way but remain open to any credible evidence.

[drumgerry]

I think if you take Doris and JTF out of the equation, which the moderators have had to do, pretty much everyone on this forum acts in a reasonable, rational manner. We might not agree with each other on every single matter but at least we know how to have a discussion without it venturing into the realms of cloud cuckoo land.

And whilst I'm not especially keen on pesticide use and vast fields of monoculture,I live in the real world and accept that these things exist. If conclusive proof comes along that neonics are the bee holocaust they are made out to be I'll be the first to sign up for them to be banned.

[Jon]

I think it is far more likely that if a problem emerges with neonicotinoids it will be a problem with pollinators or invertebrates other than honey bees.
That is probably the biggest knowledge gap which needs to be filled.
If you read the US forum beesource, most of the commercial beekeepers are saying that their bees are doing ok surrounded by seed treated maize.
They are very wary of planter dust issues during seed drilling and this is still causing problems.
There are a few still blaming Neonicotinoids such as Dave Hackenberg and Tom Theobold who will be familiar to all from the youtube videos posted everywhere by the campaigners.
The problems reported by most are the problems associated with roundup ready monoculture, ie no flowering weeds in or around the crops to provide bees with a varied pollen source. That is an issue relating to bees and GM crops, Trog.
Michael Bush, well known natural beekeeper, posted the other day that neonicotinoids are unlikely to be a smoking gun and he reckoned one of the fungicides was a far bigger problem for honey bees.

[The Drone Ranger]

I am not an SBA member so if I was banned that might be fair enough
On the whole though I think the forum is an SBA one so members shouldn't be banned
It take two to argue and (tango)
When Eric McArthur was banned I thought that was a bit harsh as well
I realise it's not going to be a popular viewpoint but I would urge re-instatement
Nobody takes any notice of over the top statements they in fact weaken the persons case
Unfortunately bans do the same thing ultimately