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Thread: Colony losses

  1. #21

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    Overwintering bees has always beeen a worry to beekeepers. The single brood box system is not really suitable, discounting this hopefully one off freak winter, especially where the spring weather has been cold, wet and windy as in recent years. I overcame the weakness of the single by using a 'canopy of sugar bags, 6 - 8 thoroughly dampend sugar bag, placed in early September, right on the frame tops in way of the cluster. The bags were usually reduced to paper tatters by late October and were replaced by another 4 - 6 dampened bags. The colonies are checked around Xmas and more bags with the paper merely wetted donated where necessary. This system worked well until 2010! My opinion about optimum overwintering is - follow Ian Craig's system of double brood box management, with the top box stowed out with stores. Next man down would be the brood and super, this super also chock full of stores. The most important prerequisite for succesful overwintering, all things being equal is a young queen - by a young queen I mean ideally a current year queen entering her first winter. In the presence of Varroa many queen bees carry the mite all summer, where the beekeeper has been less than diligent with anti Varroa measures, such queens will have been debilitated by parasitisation and by the start of the second winter - not really fit for purpose! A colony requeened around early July will boom in good foraging conditions - or where fed if the weather denies the bees acces to the late nectar sources. Bees returning from a good heather season with such a queen will be bursting with bees - it is the beekeepers job to keep them healthy and well fed from early September. It is quite astonishing just how much brood a colony denied access to the late nectar flows can produce on the late autumn feed - and thererby hangs the threat - the beekeeper feeds what is deemed adequate in the autumn; hefts the hive in ate October - finds it satisfyingly heavy - but the weight could be made up of a large complement of young bees and an inadequate amount of stores for overwintering. The bees having used the bulk of th efed syrup to breed! This was the situation which encouraged my use of sugar bags in the first place! If winter 2010 turns out to be the norm - it might be well to think about straw boxes around the hive - similar to the WBC double walled hive, provided due care was taken with ventilation.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    This year I put an 18" square of polystyrene 50mm thick between the crown board and the roof which did no harm. You can buy a sheet of Jablite in B&Q for £11 which will make ten 18" squares.
    Eric, are you on solid floors or open mesh. I find a lot of sugar falls through the mesh on an open mesh floor?
    Any reason why you prefer sugar to fondant?
    Big colonies going into winter should get off to a better start in spring but one of my stronger ones is down to just a frame of bees for some reason.
    We should probably all be testing more for Nosema.

  3. #23
    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    I initially started beekeeping in Austria, where long and cold winters were the norm. There is one golden rule for wintering that I was taught there, which I have not heard anybody mention here yet:

    Never put virgin (un-bred) comb into the broodnest after the summer peak.

    The reasoning: Once the colony starts contracting the queen might not lay eggs in it; the bees will fill it with stores but won't cross over it in the winter.

    I usually stick to this rule but got it wrong once, and right enough, the cluster moved as far as the yellow comb and no further, it died of isolation starvation, with stores just on the other side of the virgin comb.

    I know that for disease control it's important to replace brood-comb on a regular basis, but for wintering the insulation capacity of the older comb seems to be a great advantage.

    Doris

  4. #24

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    Hi Doris
    ´Niemals´ ist eine recht lange Zeit! Es gibt eine Ausnahme Deinem Vorschlag in Schottland - beim Wandern in die Heide ist es oft recht günstig ein paar Vorratsrähmchen aus dem Brutraum herauszuiehen und die mit zwei Mittelwandrähmchen zu ersetzen, damit die, hoffentlich, neue Königin ausreichende Platz zum stiften hätte. Man kann Krankeiten, wie gutartige Saurbrut, Kalkbrut, Nosema und Wachsmotten in alten Waben vernichten mit Räucherung mit 85% Ameisensäure oder 80% Essigsäure. Mit so einem Verfahren ist es möglich alte Waben zu sparen!

  5. #25

    Default Colony Loses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    This year I put an 18" square of polystyrene 50mm thick between the crown board and the roof which did no harm. You can buy a sheet of Jablite in B&Q for £11 which will make ten 18" squares.
    Eric, are you on solid floors or open mesh. I find a lot of sugar falls through the mesh on an open mesh floor?
    Any reason why you prefer sugar to fondant?
    Big colonies going into winter should get off to a better start in spring but one of my stronger ones is down to just a frame of bees for some reason.
    We should probably all be testing more for Nosema.
    The mesh floor is a prolem and it is better to use fondant in this situation unless the sugar has solidly
    crystalised. The polystyrene is a great idea - this deflects any wild heat from the colony back into the box - even a 1 C could make that life and death difference. I don't use open msh floors but the same problemm occurs with the Varroa floor which is a necessary evil. I use one floor per 5 hives! How old was your colony queen?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    same problem occurs with the Varroa floor
    Sorry, by open mesh floor I meant Varroa floor so same difference anyway.

    How old was your colony queen
    All my queens bar one are 2009. This one started laying last June and was a great layer. I remember on one inspection she had 21 sides of brood over the 11 frames. I saw her about 2 hours ago when I moved the colony, if you could even call it that, into a small nuc.

    One of the advantages of polystyrene above the crown board is that it stops condensation forming on the underside and dripping on the cluster. The sides of the hive are cooler and the moisture should condense there and run down to the floor.

  7. #27
    Banned Stromnessbees's Avatar
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    Hi Eric

    Your German is excellent, it's not easy with all these specialist terms!

    You are right, of course, if you take your bees to the heather it's a good idea to add some foundation which will be drawn out and then laid up by the queen; which is after the 'summer peak' that I mentioned.
    And formic or acetic acid can be used on older comb against some diseases and waxmoth. (Just letting everybody know what this was about).

    Mit besten Grüßen, Doris

  8. #28

    Default Colony losses

    From Gavin’s ‘Colony Losses’ thread, which itself seems to have got lost. It appears that some beekeepers, including myself, are feeling guilt at losing colonies. Could we have done it better? This might seem an unanswerable question in the light of the severe winter just past and the possibility that such winters could be the norm in future; management we can change. The weather; I wish?
    However despite the fact that untoward colony losses were incurred by many – there are a favoured few, perhaps even a silent many beekeepers who came through the winter with their colonies intact or who suffered minimal loss compared with their colleague beekeepers. It would be interesting and educational if these happy individuals would perhaps tell their story – their management system, their winter preparations and, I think most importantly; the type of area where the bees are kept; viz near the coast, location relative to sea level, foraging sources, distance from colonies to these sources - even dare I say it – the type of hive! Such information could be just what is needed to give ourselves and the bees a fighting chance of survival in future years.

    [This post was moved from another area to keep the discussion together. Hope everyone is happy with such interventions. Gavin the Admin]

  9. #29
    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    I'm certainly annoyed with myself about that recent loss which may well have been avoidable. That's an excellent idea Eric to suggest that people chip in with their successes as well as their losses. The Colony Losses thread is still there in the Bee Health area below if people would like to add their comments to that one rather than start another here.

    [And this]

  10. #30
    Senior Member POPZ's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Eric McArthur;693
    However despite the fact that untoward colony losses were incurred by many – there are a favoured few, perhaps even a silent many beekeepers who came through the winter with their colonies intact or who suffered minimal loss compared with their colleague beekeepers. It would be interesting and educational if these happy individuals would perhaps tell their story – their management system, their winter preparations and, I think most importantly; the type of area where the bees are kept; viz near the coast, location relative to sea level, foraging sources, distance from colonies to these sources - even dare I say it – the type of hive! Such information could be just what is needed to give ourselves and the bees a fighting chance of survival in future years[/QUOTE]

    That horribly negative expression 'colony losses', and now Eric is thankfully trying to introduce some positive into this thread. I would like to help him in that, although a relative newbie, I and my ladies, have had a great winter so far. Maybe the luck of a beginner, who knows, but my story is this-

    I obtained a locally produced nuc in May 2009 with a sealed queen cell. Housing them in a National cold way over OMF, I syrup fed for 6 weeks - 23lbs until second week of July. Then continuous bad weather started so started feeding again till end of August, 14 lbs sugar. Due to past very bad weather, started autumn feeding of 1/2 syrup. added Thymol to first feed. Indian summer arrived so great foraging through to first week of October.

    October 17th prepared hive for winter. Leave OMF without tray. Reduced entrance block and mouseguard. A six inch plastic skirt tacked around base of floor to lessen west coast gale induced draughts!. A sheet of that black webbing, that gardeners use to prevent weeds coming up, tacked round the outside of both brood and super. A cover board over super and then a section of silver backed foam insulation over cover board to fit inside roof.

    I did not remove any honey so they had ample stores throughout winter right through till end of March when things got a bit light and so gave them a wee shot of syrup to keep things moving on. This week have done first inspection and all looks good.

    So, that is my ladies story. Beginners luck maybe, but I do feel that ample ventilation in a hive with a well insulated roof is very important. This keeps the air circulating and prevents any condensation other than on the walls, if anywhere.

    Such a joy to see such activity going on now with the anticipation of building stocks up over the coming season. And many thanks to my mentor/neighbour/pretty troglodyte.

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