Colony losses

[Jon]

The activity on 28th September could have been robbing out of a dead colony.

Need to know a bit more before making a guess at what happened.

Are you in an area with Varroa? If so what was treatment.
Did the colony have a laying queen and brood on 4 September?
was there any streaking on the outside of the box, ie evidence of nosema.

If you are in a varroa area all the mites from the dead colony will now be in the other two colonies which have robbed it out.

I don't think it starved as you would have had a layer of dead bees a couple of inches deep.

I have had a colony collapse like this due to nosema over a few weeks and the same thing can happen with a bad varroa infestation.
varroa usually becomes a big problem in late summer as the brood area is reduced and the mite population is huge so every cell ends up with one or more mites in it.

[Adam]

An illustration to Jon's points above ... I posted about a problem I had with one colony here:-

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...damaged-colony

Syrup had gone in the top but by the time I realised that the colony was being robbed the super was empty - previously it had 4 ot 5 frames quite full.

The colony was moved back home at night and it looks like it is recovering but it doesn't have full brood box of stores. On the site where it stood, I left an empty hive with a couple of empty combs and there were quite a few bees hanging around the next morning - looking for pickings I think. More confirmation of robbing if ever I needed it.

Something I have noticed about robbing is that the robber and robbed hives are busy after all the other hives have stopped for the evening. In all innocence, the first time I saw it I thought "Wow these colonies are good, flying 'till nearly dusk" How wrong I was.

[Troutnabout]

Jon, thanks for the reply, my answers are in blue

The activity on 28th September could have been robbing out of a dead colony.

Need to know a bit more before making a guess at what happened.

Are you in an area with Varroa? If so what was treatment. Not that I am aware of, have checked regularly - no sign of varoa this year or in any of the previous 5 years we have been keeping bees, treated earlier in year with varoa strips

Did the colony have a laying queen and brood on 4 September? New queen marked in early June, saw new eggs etc in early September

was there any streaking on the outside of the box, ie evidence of nosema. Not aware of this, was not looking for it though

If you are in a varroa area all the mites from the dead colony will now be in the other two colonies which have robbed it out. there is only one hive right next to it and it still has stores but not full, so I doubt if this colony robbed hive #1
I don't think it starved as you would have had a layer of dead bees a couple of inches deep.

I have had a colony collapse like this due to nosema over a few weeks and the same thing can happen with a bad varroa infestation.
varroa usually becomes a big problem in late summer as the brood area is reduced and the mite population is huge so every cell ends up with one or more mites in it.

[Jon]

Very hard to say what happened.
A swarm is highly unlikely although a hive which runs out of stores can completely abscond with all the bees even if there is some brood in it. I have seen this happen a couple of times.

Were there heaps of wax cappings on the floor? This can be a sign of robbing as the robber bees uncap and tear open the combs and aren't bothered about cleaning up.

[Calum]

Hi
I'm told that if the queen was weak or lost the colony is especially prone to being robbed.
Is there still capped drone cells (or even drones) in the colony - that c/would be an indication that the colony were unhappy with the queen or were queen cells started (could also be hard to tell as the robbers really go for the royal jelly).

I have not given up on the remains of my rodded colonies - they were combined, given 4 frames full of food a queen is laying again.. I am a sucker for lost causes though.. . .

[Jon]

I am a sucker for lost causes though.. . .

Me too, and you spend ten times more time nursing those weak colonies than you spend on the strong ones.

[Calum]

Me too, and you spend ten times more time nursing those weak colonies than you spend on the strong ones.

yes, not any more. Went to see how they were getting along today. Being robbed again.
I saved the pollen frames and a couple that had some feed in them. End of the road for them.
From 26 three lost already, does not bode well for the winter...

[Troutnabout]

Very hard to say what happened.
A swarm is highly unlikely although a hive which runs out of stores can completely abscond with all the bees even if there is some brood in it. I have seen this happen a couple of times.

Were there heaps of wax cappings on the floor? This can be a sign of robbing as the robber bees uncap and tear open the combs and aren't bothered about cleaning up.

I use open mesh floors, looks like this could be another episode in the great dissapearing bee's saga

[Mellifera Crofter]

A swarm is highly unlikely although a hive which runs out of stores can completely abscond with all the bees even if there is some brood in it. I have seen this happen a couple of times.

Hi Jon,

Why would they abscond? I've recently read that African bees (Scutellata, Capensis - can't remember) do that - but they leave to find better forage. With our bees, particularly at this time of the year, that's not an option - or are they leaving to join a better-stocked hive?

Kitta

[Jon]

I don't know why they do it but it has happened to me a couple of times with nucs - most recently last year. The entire contents of the nuc, including the queen, were on a fence post a few feet away. This was a queen which had recently started to lay and there were eggs and brood in the box - not a pick of food though.
My father has had this happen to him a couple of times as well. He calls it a hunger swarm. I remember him telling me about one of his which swarmed/absconded at 8.30 in the morning a few years ago. I don't really know if it could happen this late on in the year. The nuc I mentioned absconded in July.

Another reason you can get the entire hive absconding is overheating. This happens with apideas if you don't place them in the shade.
I had an apidea full of bees and brood abscond on that really hot day on 28th September. The apidea was in my front garden and I was on the doorstep trying to get rid of a guy who wanted to re-tarmac my drive. The bees were swirling around him as he left the premises. Fortunately I had the excluder strip on so the queen was trapped inside and they all came back 15 minutes later.