Scottish MEP calls for ban of neonicotinoids

[madasafish]

"Your vague list of adversities does not explain sudden dwindling etc. of previously strong colonies that showed no problems going into the winter."

Vague?
A factually accurate description of last season's beekeeping for many.


I refuse to say any more.

[Jon]

More from MARREC

The cause of CCD is currently under investigation. At this point, almost every possible and realistic cause remains a possibility. The following list of leading candidates--in no particular order--is not comprehensive and may change as new information becomes available. Such changes could result in the addition or exclusion of any of the following potential causes.

For more detailed information about each possible cause, see the original publication, Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) in Honey Bees.

Traditional bee pests and diseases.
Most likely they are not responsible for CCD, as they do not have a history of producing those symptoms, but they may exacerbate the problem.
Bee management. Management style is a broad category, but it can include the type of income pursued with bees--honey production, pollination services--or the routine colony management that beekeepers perform--splitting hives, swarm control, chemical use.
Queen source. Lack of genetic diversity and lineage of bees--both related to queen quality--are being investigated as possible causes of CCD.
Chemical use in bee colonies. Chemicals used to control bee maladies have a variety of sub-lethal effects on all honey bees--workers, queens, and drones--even when the chemicals were used according to label and in accordance with best management practices suggested by specialists.
Chemical toxins in the environment. In addition to being exposed to toxins while foraging, honey bees may also encounter toxins by drinking water contaminated with chemical runoff, encountering various household or commercial chemicals outside of the hive, or via direct inhalation.
Genetically modified crops. Many seeds from which genetically modified crops are grown are dipped first in systemic insecticides that later may appear in the plants' nectar and pollen, making genetically modified plants suspect because of their chemical treatment history, not because of their modified genetics.
Varroa mites and associated pathogens. Varroa mites remain the world's most destructive honey bee killer, so they, the viruses they transmit, and the chemical response they elicit from beekeepers are considered possible causes of CCD.
Nutritional fitness. Malnutrition causes stress to bees, possibly weakening the bees' immune systems. Weak immune systems can affect bees' ability to fight pests and diseases.
Undiscovered or new pests and diseases. Undiscovered, unidentified, or recently-introduced pests and pathogens are considered possible causes of CCD.


Many scientists believe that CCD is caused by some combination of the factors above. For example, some dead bees showing CCD symptoms have had elevated levels of normally-benign pathogens in their bodies, possibly indicating a compromised immune system.

In theory, any stress or combination of stresses--such as chemicals, genetic bottlenecks, or varroa--can suppress a bee's immune system. Considering synergistic effects as a potential cause of CCD makes the disorder increasingly more difficult to study.

[Stromnessbees]

MAAREC ...

They can come up with as many Spindoctor organizations as they like, I know what I have seen and I have read the independent literature.

Especially in America the RDS - Revolving Door Syndrome - has distorted most of the 'research' and official output.

Beekeepers who have observed the developments over the last few years will see exactly what I am talking about and not accept the 'multifactorial everything-is-to-blame' version.

[Jon]

No answer = wheel out the same tired conspiracies.

LOL at 'spindoctor organizations'

Must be a first for Dennis Van Engelsdorp to be called a spindoctor.

Even Graham White described him as inspirational.

BBKA thread here

Maryann Frazier, another revolving door lackey obviously

[Black Comb]

Doris
you said
"A 'dwindling disease' without obvious other signs had not been recorded before, and I am convinced that the term is used to mask losses to neonics."

I suggested that in recent years nosema ceranae which has come to European and UK shores has exactly these symptoms and might be a reason. Of course you dismiss any other likelihood - tunnel vision? The banning of Fumidil B will only add to it's spread IMO. I gave you a reference showing it can be passed from bee to bee by trophallaxis.

Here is a further reference
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/bee...cfm?pageid=191
In part it says "In Spain it has been reported that N. ceranae infections are characterised by a progressive reduction in the number of bees in a colony until the point of collapse." Er, that fits my argument does it not?

For your info. page 104 he says " In my experience it is very rare to find colonies failing to develop properly which cannot be assigned to either "poor queen" or "nosemic" categories." Quoting a 1997 book which is clearly out of date on diseases does not add to your argument IMO.

[Stromnessbees]

No answer = wheel out the same tired conspiracies.

LOL at 'spindoctor organizations'

Must be a first for Dennis Van Engelsdorp to be called a spindoctor.

Even Graham White described him as inspirational.

Maryann Frazier, another revolving door lackey obviously

Jonathan, you can't come up with any evidence that CCD symptoms can be considered 'normal'.

We are losing millions of colonies to this problem every year since the widespread use of neonics has started.

I can't help it if those 'scientists' don't have the guts to write what's really going on.

Anybody with a bit of healthy skepticism can see that the official narrative is flawed.

[Stromnessbees]

In part it says "In Spain it has been reported that N. ceranae infections are characterised by a progressive reduction in the number of bees in a colony until the point of collapse." Er, that fits my argument does it not?

A progressive reduction is not what we see in CCD.
Nosema ceranae has long been dismissed as the cause of CCD.

For your info. page 104 he says " In my experience it is very rare to find colonies failing to develop properly which cannot be assigned to either "poor queen" or "nosemic" categories." Quoting a 1997 book which is clearly out of date on diseases does not add to your argument IMO.

This is exactly my point!

Up to the time that this was written it was rare, but now we have millions of colonies die each year that haven't lost their queens and that don't fit the picture of nosema.

[Black Comb]

You conveniently ignore your previous quote which I reminded you of.
He doesn't say it was rare, he says it is rare to find dwindling colonies that have NOT died from these 2 causes.
Why won't you explore ALL possible reasons if you think it is a problem?
Why won't you consider nosema ceranae which has progressed in recent years and is one possible cause that displays the symptoms that you yourself posted?

[madasafish]

I don't know where these " millions of colonies die each year that haven't lost their queens and that don't fit the picture of nosema." come from.

They are obviously not the UK so Doris no doubt has chapter and verse on where they are and a list of symptoms.

Perhaps she could share it with us?

[Stromnessbees]

You conveniently ignore your previous quote which I reminded you of.
He doesn't say it was rare, he says it is rare to find dwindling colonies that have NOT died from these 2 causes.

As I said, I read all of Chapter 9.
There he says it's rare to lose a colony to nosema, as the bees get over it on their own.
He also says it's rare to lose a queen.

Ever since the widespread use of neonics started beekeeping has changed beyond recognition:

Areas that used to be bee heavens are losing their bee populations fast, queen problems are rampant, and sudden die-offs, especially during winter, have become the norm.