New BIBBA website

[Jon]

Mine mate ok.
The problem is getting them early in the season

[prakel]

The scarcity appears to be year-round not just early season.

[Jon]

I am going to try and rear more next season so anyone interested can chase me up.
I think some others are going to do the same.

I have 8 still in double apideas.

[Rosie]

So where are we now? Is BIBBA an association devoted to native bees, or just bee improvement. If the former, then perhaps the name should be changed again to reflect that; if not, then I am not sure where its future lies.

Sorry to bring us back to this line of Peter's but I think we should remember here what's in BIBBA's constitution:

"The objectives of the Association shall be the conservation, reintroduction, study, selection and improvement of native or near-native honeybees of Britain and Ireland."

This is the only objective BIBBA has. There was a move a couple of years ago to change this. The reason was well intentioned but it would have given the impression that other sub-species could encouraged in areas where Amms were already lost. It did not, however, define how lost they had to be for the area to count as a lost one. Fortunately the proposal was defeated in a strong vote of the membership. This, to me, confirmed what BIBBA members really think and that they still firmly support the objectives as currently stated.

Steve

[prakel]

I have 8 still in double apideas.

Which we know is also the answer to the early season issue, maybe there'll be an increase in overwintered 'queens with support staff' after this years National Honey Show!

[The Drone Ranger]

Depends where you live/what you want. Nationally advertised amm nucs are few and far between. Possibly, it's hard to get amm queens mated in the British climate?

Jon says
"Those hostile to a native bee breeding project are generally just a few of the older guys who were sold on Buckfast decades ago.
There is a renegade streak in a lot of beekeepers. "

Steve says
"The problem then, of course, is that some will be entrenched exotic bee fanciers and will object to even being approached on the subject. They then spread disinformation about BIBBA's aims and methods"

I can see that point of view but it almost turns reality on its head
AMM would be exotica in most of Britain these days
BIBBA members and AMM enthusiasts are a tiny tiny minority of Beekeepers
Most beekeepers have withdrawn from discussing the issue
Nobody I know is hostile to native bees
Native bee fans however are often pretty hostile towards anyone who is not on message
Disinformation is a two way street in so much as most other queens other than AMM are professionally reared and of good quality
Any problems of crossing and temper issues would apply equally to someone buying an AMM queen as any other
The only sensible objection is they are mostly imported

Now that's in no way intended to annoy or upset anyone but the small number of Native bee enthusiasts should accept they are the minority
The rest of the beekeeping community do need not feel guilty because BIBBA thinks they should

[prakel]

I have a feeling that Jon may find himself unwittingly leading a new generation of amm fanciers who are both willing and able to supply queens to people in areas where there's no longer an extant population. This, I imagine, is actually in line with the aim of 'reintroduction' outlined in Bibbas constitution although some might prefer a more controlled group centred scheme.

[The Drone Ranger]

Prakel are you near Durdle Door is that the Jurrassic Coast ?

[Jon]

I have a feeling that Jon may find himself unwittingly....

Unwittingly? Don't think so.

I actually have serious reservations about that and have already discussed it with others locally.
I remember discussing this with dan Basterfield at the Stirling Conference last year as well.
There is no way I would sell queens to someone living beside Pete Little for example as he puts a lot of work into his Buckfast.
Buckfast is the de facto native bee now in Devon and I have no problem with that
Unfortunately we have local bee dealers who think it is no problem to sell nucs of other subspecies into AMM areas. Some even laugh and boast about it.

I remember the exchanges between Gavin and a well known bee dealer from further south who was selling Carnica nucs with varroa into varroa free AMM areas of Scotland including some of the islands.
For some people it's just about the money.

[prakel]

Prakel are you near Durdle Door is that the Jurrassic Coast ?

Yes! Good bee country.