But has our native bee no intrinsic value? Uncontrolled hybridization will wipe it out unless we take steps to keep some areas free from hybrids.Originally Posted by The Drone Ranger
Hybrids and mongrels probably cover 90% of the British Isles at this point.
I agree with that Jon but would go even further. I doubt if the original Sussex eco-type would do particularly well here in the mountains of North Wales and I have no idea how many generations it would take for it to acclimatise. Hence some think we should try to preserve the original local strain where it still exists to a reasonable degree. Don't ask me what "reasonable" means because I don't know and it's part of the big debate. Once we get DNA sequencing right we can start sorting all this out but until then I think we must muddle on but tread thoughtfully.
Steve
Last edited by Rosie; 20-10-2013 at 12:59 PM.
Hi Jon
Most people must agree with the preservation where possible of these endangered bees hence the support for Colonsay
And
Steve I do agree with trying to protect the strain of bee you have in Sussex
I don't know where I stand on the subject of parachuting in proven AMM stock
What I do know is that the majority of beekeepers in this Country can't continue to be represented as an obstacle to progress preventing the return of the native bee of Britain
Sadly the success of native bee breeding projects has to balanced against the divisive effect they have on beekeeping generally
Time passes, everything changes, and the world moves on, as does beekeeping. So perhaps it's time to accept that the triumphant return of AMM as the nations one and only bee sweeping away the hundreds of years of hbridisation is not going to happen
When projects try to recreate the AMM bee as a sort of modern facsimile by breeding from local hybrids they might only be selecting a wing type but by having a focus and a purpose to their breeding efforts we might end up with a better bee anyway (sort of AMM+)
I've been up a ladder putting two young pigeons back in a nest this morning
I got soaked , they were ungrateful, and I don't particularly like pigeons, and I know some people would say it's wrong
I wanted to do it and I mostly keep bees for the same reason
Anyway bck to topic
Yes nice website
lots of very useful software
highly recommend a visit
[QUOTE=Rosie;22043]One argument against "parachuting" bees to anywhere is that they might be incompatible with the bees that already dominate the area. If that happens, and particularly if the bees are in the hands of someone inexperienced, then the results of future open matings could be less than desirable. This is the difficulty associated with reintroduction.
The only way that I can see is to flood your area with good drones. Remember that if you rear plenty of queens from the parachuted stock then they will produce pure drones, regardless of mating. Given that native queens frequently live 3 or more years, that can give you pretty good control of the skies for a long time - especially if a group do it.
Of course, it is not a one-off operation - you have to then keep selecting and culling.
Peter Edwards
I'm sure that's good advice Peter and something that a number of BIBBA members are trying to do. It's not so useful though for someone with 5 hives and who, according to beebase, is surrounded by 30 apiaries full of dodgy bees within a 10km radius. I that case the group structure has got to be the way forward. If you can recruit the other 30 apiary owners you should be home and dry.
The problem then, of course, is that some will be entrenched exotic bee fanciers and will object to even being approached on the subject. They then spread disinformation about BIBBA's aims and methods.
I've lived in such an area and it's a breath of fresh air to now work in a "community" that knows the meaning of the word. We have a very small percentage of beekeepers that are not on board but they don't accept the argument that hybrids are bad news and so are happy to continue as they are and don't object to the native bee majority. As they are a minority their presence don't worry the rest of us and we remain friendly and cooperative. One by one though they have been joining us and the ones that have made the switch so far have turned out to be very enthusiastic.
The trick seems to be to sign up a critical mass of local beekeepers and then the process will develop its own momentum. In our case it's also been a huge help that the local beekeeping trainers are native bee enthusiasts.
Sorry to have drifted off thread so far.
Steve
Similar situation here Steve.
Those hostile to a native bee breeding project are generally just a few of the older guys who were sold on Buckfast decades ago.
Old dogs and new tricks applies here.
The other sub set is new beekeepers who have not yet joined an association who are unaware of the issues, have no contacts, and buy bees from one of the English mail order suppliers.
We got one new member of the queen rearing group this year who had plonked down two colonies of Fragile Planet supplied bees, Carnica I think, about a mile and a half from our mating site. He had huge problems with aggression after losing swarms in early May and was looking for help.
Queen rearing groups will only work properly when you get critical mass.
The odd hold-out then gets swamped out by the number of native drones and may then reconsider what is likely to be in his best interests.
I think it is important not top get bolshy with other beekeepers even if they are not initial enthusiasts about the bee breeding project.
Quite a few people take time to come round to the idea of working as a community.
There is a renegade streak in a lot of beekeepers.
probably put off by the surcharge for having their fp nuc headed by a Welsh amm: 2014 price = Buckfast 5 frame £190; amm 5 frame £255.
He did not even seem to be aware of different bee subspecies or issues to do with hybridisation.
Likely just bought the cheapest on offer.
Our beginners are getting a nuc for £120 which comes with some mentoring and support as well. £255 is crazy unless the nuc box is diamond encrusted.
Last edited by Jon; 27-10-2013 at 11:03 AM. Reason: typos
Depends where you live/what you want. Nationally advertised amm nucs are few and far between. Possibly, it's hard to get amm queens mated in the British climate?
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