New BIBBA website

[Steven Turner]

Thank you for following through the registration process.

Much appreciated.

Regards, Steven

[The Drone Ranger]

Has BIBBA always been about breeding AMM or was it wider than that ?
In the 50 years has there been much progress?

That's not a criticism I use the work of Peter Edwards to make life easier for me
has there been any change to the beekeeping map which can be attributed to BIBBA ?

[gavin]

mbc has shown you the way forward Jon
you need Artificial Inseminating kit

Don't get carried away DR. II might be a useful extra but there are so many other things to get right first. Good numbers of stocks to maintain a breeding pool, means of identifying and selecting the better stocks for your situation. Unless you are tapping into someone else's breeding work.

Jon identifies hybridised colonies and either requeens them or uses them to make bees and (transplanted) drones. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

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[The Drone Ranger]

I'm afraid I still am unconvinced by the aguments
BIBBA's three priciples are contradictory
The availability of AMM is patchy
And if breeders select from existing stocks they are creating a replacement not preserving AMM
I'm inclined to the view that there is no real argument for AMM over common hybrid bees
The thing that seems to attract people to AMM is the nostalgia principle where everything gone by was better than now
My new beeyear resolution is to put any native bee considerations behind me and move on unencumbered

[madasafish]

I'm afraid I still am unconvinced by the aguments
BIBBA's three priciples are contradictory
The availability of AMM is patchy
And if breeders select from existing stocks they are creating a replacement not preserving AMM
I'm inclined to the view that there is no real argument for AMM over common hybrid bees
The thing that seems to attract people to AMM is the nostalgia principle where everything gone by was better than now
My new beeyear resolution is to put any native bee considerations behind me and move on unencumbered

When I started beekeeping nearly 4 years ago I read the AMM debate avidly. I thought that having native bees was ideal.

BIBBA had none.
No-one had any.


The BBKA went on about opposing queen imports.

IF they were serious, they (BIBBA) would have a setup where they sold AMM queens to all and sundry in mass.

If the BBKA were serious in their opposition to queen imports they would encourage local queen breeders to gear up to supply the market.

Four years later, NOTHING has changed.

Conclusion: neither are serious. It's words only.

I decided 4 years ago it was likely that was the case: I am convinced now by the evidence not only of lack of progress but the lack of any serious attempt to start progress.

Sorry: it's all BS in my view. Fine words, no actions.

[Jon]

Sorry: it's all BS in my view. Fine words, no actions.

I also share your incredulity, as it is not hard to rear queens even if the matings can sometimes be suspect due to the mixture of drones.
But even then the queens reared are at least local which is a step forward from importing.
The problem in Bibba has been that proposals get shot down before they even get trialled somewhere.
I don't know what the bbka is up to but I don't see any great support emanating from there.
As soon as someone has a plan to rear queens, someone else will jump up with a 'how do you know your queen is the right sort of queen' argument.
Result - lack of concrete action.
Steve says that things have been rejigged in Bibba so I am still onboard as a supporter but end product is needed fast.

And it is not all BS as there is action from some of us, especially on the big island to the west of you.

[The Drone Ranger]

Looking out the window of the conservatory I'm watching the sparrows we have about a hundred now
When I came here 10 or so years back ther were only a few and lots of chaffinches
By feeding at the right times and having the right cover sparrows have flourished sadly the chaffinches have diminished in numbers
If it was the beekeeping world we were looking at then the two would have interbred and become flourishing hybrid charrows

[The Drone Ranger]

Don't get carried away DR. II might be a useful extra but there are so many other things to get right first. Good numbers of stocks to maintain a breeding pool, means of identifying and selecting the better stocks for your situation. Unless you are tapping into someone else's breeding work.

Jon identifies hybridised colonies and either requeens them or uses them to make bees and (transplanted) drones. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

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Probably am getting carried away here's a link to the Federation of Irish Beekeepers and how they struggled with II initially
http://www.irishbeekeeping.ie/articles/ii.html

[Jon]

Redmond who wrote that article does all the II work for the Galtee Group. He is regarded as the most knowledgeable II practitioner in Ireland.
That FIBKA site is like a time warp. Most of the pages are years old.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Jon

Yes from a while back but the it shows everyone starts somewhere
The Galtee group are the experts and they had to master II
Gavin thinks that is getting carried away
I'm not sure it is because would Galtee have made any progress without
a) a large membership
b) good mating locations
C) artificial insemination
d) some quality breeding stocks

I contrast that approach with taking a pretty hybridised bee and scanning the wings looking for something which shows some promise
As I have said my bees range from 0% to 77% this year to me that's meaningless
If I started with the 77% which I wouldn't incidentally because they had chalk brood early season
I could spend the rest of my life selecting for the most AMM characteristics but that would still be a hybridised bee.
Now as long as you realise that what you are breeding for is less likely to be AMM than if you went to the local dog pound and selected two black and white dogs and started trying to recreate a border collie that's fine.
I have learned a lot from discussing the AMM or not AMM question including that the supporters of AMM should stop blaming the rest of the beekeeping community for their lack of progress and instead take a long hard look at what they themselves do,

Sorry that seems a bit rude on reading back but you get the drift