DR To answer the breeding question ,where to start, that's the problem, so yes I do think beekeepers have been selecting from the best for hundreds of years
Skep beekeepers culled the best stocks and kept the mediocre ones!
DR To answer the breeding question ,where to start, that's the problem, so yes I do think beekeepers have been selecting from the best for hundreds of years
Skep beekeepers culled the best stocks and kept the mediocre ones!
Peter Edwards
They might not haveOriginally Posted by Peter
People were just as smart in the past and in some ways smarter than now
But let's go with that and say since the introduction of modern removable frames people have selected from their best bees
In fact they were so inclined to improve their bees that they imported huge numbers of queens and bees from all over the place
They were not cheap to buy either so their was a genuine desire for better bees
Most old adverts stressed the honey gathering calpability
I think it's fair to say then that they were interested in improving their bees and actively engaged in doing so albeit that lead to hybridisation of the bee population of most of the UK
I agree with both Peters,Rosie, Jon and mbc (and most of drumgerry) Scottish wildcat X moggie
Is the next wave of hybridisation , imports and bee movements to be AMM ?
Fair enough my bees have a fair bit of that in them as well
Sorry jon meant to reply to the Hetrosis thing earlier I don't thing anyone buying a queen will be getting one which has a line bred pedigree but a wide gene pool helps with vigour anyway
Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 26-10-2013 at 01:20 PM.
To take your points in turn:
We know from the literature that they did cull the heaviest skeps - which I would assume were the best.
Have you heard the expression 'the grass is greener on the other side'? Humans seem to have always assumed that others have something better - especially the British who have constantly believed that anything imported must be good (hence the collapse of our economy from time to time).
If it is more expensive then it has to be even better, doesn't it?
Who believes adverts?
Remember too that there was plenty of money to be made if you could convince beekeepers that you were able to supply something better than what they already had.
What they (the importers and their customers) did not know (or perhaps some did) was the harm that would be done by indiscriminate importing - and it still goes on, despite our current knowledge. Leaving aside the genetic damage, let us think for a minute about disease. We have always assumed that it is OK to import from another country if we have the same diseases here? Right? Wrong!
Recent work has shown that there are, from memory (I might have the numbers wrong), 27 strains of EFB identified so far in the world: the UK has, I think, 6 of these. Do we want the rest, some of which are more virulent than the ones that we have?
If I had my way then we would put in real biosecurity: we could start by learning from NZ and Australia. (Is it not ironic that NZ are wrecking our bees whilst preserving their own?) It is time that our government realised that monitoring and reacting when a problem occurs is not biosecurity - it is just job creation for Defra departments.
Peter Edwards
That's equally true of most of the AMM bees available I'm sure
Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 26-10-2013 at 11:07 PM. Reason: too long as usual
As Peter E says
"Beats me why anyone with even half a brain keeps knocking our native bees? Trolls? "
There no denying the logic in that statement
Our native bees are hybrids now
Speak for yourself DR, my native bees have stubbornly poked a proboscis out at the romans, saxons, normans and english, ignored IoW desease and Bro. Adams with his false pronouncements, turned their back on the double barreled names and their cash rich imports propaganda, and are now weathering the storm of internet shopping, all this while being robbed for millenia by their supposed custodians with their legendary thirst for mead.As Peter E says
"Beats me why anyone with even half a brain keeps knocking our native bees? Trolls? "
There no denying the logic in that statement
Our native bees are hybrids now
Still, well done DR, this thread would look like cheerleading for AMM without a bit of devils advocacy !
Keep it going chaps, a most enjoyable read so far.
Is DR a hybrid?
This reminds me of the time I was once accused of being a racist because I favoured one bee race over another. If you use the word "subspecies" then suddenly you're not a racist after all.
Steve
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