We're the bad guys - again!

[Jon]

And some of the worst offenders on beekeeping forum are not even beekeepers!
Some of the posts made there are embarrassing in their stupidity and could only be made by people with no practical knowledge of beekeeping.

[gavin]

Thanks guys. I just can't resist the chance to play with the likes of Borderbeeman who will now forever be thought of in terms of psychedelic Beatle lyrics (in my head anyway). Such a humourless fixed view is a wonder to behold.

Roll on the beekeeping season. We're nearly there. Was talking to an old timer tonight and his bees seem in fine fettle. Strong, even, like mine (oops, should never count chickens).

[EmsE]

.....I think there are some strongly held opinions but thankfully we (generally) have not been infiltrated by the extremists some of whom think that blanketing every beekeeping forum known to man with their "opinions" will win the argument for them. I've come to the point that even if what they're saying is true I don't want to hear it any more. I immediately take a position in opposition to them.

For me it's about the bees and the beekeeping - first and last. For some it seems to be all about being a keyboard warrior. Thankfully not too many of those around SBAi and long may that continue!

It is amazing that they don't see that

*the way they behave is turning people away from even wanting to find out more about their concerns.
* as soon as they mention someone is in the pocket of one of 'those' multinationals then they come across as conspiracy theorists
*you can't bully people along onto supporting your view, you need to talk (or type) nicely to them & take the time to politely answer their questions. They would get a lot further without leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

Like Drumgerry, I question how much of it is really about the bees and how much is more to do with their egos and the power trip they are seeking over others. After watching the threads on the Beekeeping Forum I was disgusted by the behaviour of quite a few members, some of which I know it is about the bees but they certainly don't come across that way.

I personally would enjoy a balanced discussion looking at the pesticide issue so that in my own mind I can come to my own views an know that I wouldn't get slagged off for them or for even asking a question.

Rant over- time for a cuppa

[madasafish]

I have virtually given up on biobees forum as it reminds me of the posts on forums after 9/11 when conspiracy theorists had a field day.

You must remember in all this that for some people , conspiracy theories rule their lives and they go from one to another as they become fashionable...

[Jon]

Yes I am only after reading that Bayer likely introduced the Asian Hornet to France (that one from a well known conspiracy theorist who lives on a Northerly Island off Scotland) which was met by the riposte that they likely brought varroa to the UK as well.
Heady stuff.
Distraction you see. No-one will notice the neonics with all the new pests abounding.
It is a pity, as there must be loads of regulars on biobees who find this stuff as risible as I do but you are on a hiding to nothing if you challenge it.
There should not be a connection between this sort of nonsense and the natural beekeeping movement as it brings it into total ridicule.

[Neils]

I personally would enjoy a balanced discussion looking at the pesticide issue so that in my own mind I can come to my own views an know that I wouldn't get slagged off for them or for even asking a question.

Rant over- time for a cuppa

We could try a moderated thread perhaps? I'd be prepared to sit out the discussion other than act as moderator.

The risk is still that it acts as a conspiracy theorist magnet but it seems silly that on our own forum we should feel intimidated off discussing something.

[Jon]

I don't think there is a problem with logical discussion on this forum apart from one or two zealots - and there are clearly degrees of harm to the environment caused by pesticides which need to be quantified as acceptable or unacceptable.
Calum posted a flow chart last year which summed up the problem.

if your mind is already made up and can never be changed no matter what new evidence appears than there is no discussion taking place.

Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg

[EmsE]

Unfortunately it only takes 1 to spoil it for everyone, but you're both right that we should be able to discuss freely, however it would need to be closely moderated or be a pre moderated thread to ensure it isn't hijacked. There's no point entering a thread where you find others twisting what you say, telling you what you think bla bla bla- It justs puts your back up.

Did Callum get the post of the year for that?- it couldn't have been more apt.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[Jon]

Did Callum get the post of the year for that?- it couldn't have been more apt.

It was a toss up between that one and the other one comparing the debate to playing chess with a pigeon!

There is a lot of stuff to debate:
-why the obsession with neonicotinoids as opposed to pyrethroids, carbamates and organo-phosphates, what will replace them?
-The difference in toxicity of neonicotinoids eg thiacloprid is about 1000 times less toxic to bees than thiamethoxam
-different risks associated with seed treatment, planter dust, soil injection or foliar sprays
-risks associated with different crops, soils and other field conditions.
-impartial review of the peer reviewed literature
-field realistic vs lab studies and the pitfalls of data collection and data interpretation

A lot of the people who want to ban neonicotinoids also want to ban all pesticides so they will just move on to the next target.
A more mature approach would be based around risk mitigation and looking at realistic economically viable alternatives which lead to a reduction in pesticide use.

[Bumble]

Yes I am only after reading that Bayer likely introduced the Asian Hornet to France (that one from a well known conspiracy theorist who lives on a Northerly Island off Scotland) which was met by the riposte that they likely brought varroa to the UK as well.

I suppose, in time, they'll also blame Bayer for Isle of Wight Disease?

It's very difficult to have a rational discussion with an irrational person who sees the same bête noire round every corner. The same people seem to want us to return to the dark ages, but haven't acknowledged the downsides of their arguments. Or, at least, haven't realaised that they would quite likely end up living in a hovel with not enough to eat, and with no internet.