Without any doubt I am sorry for anyone who has lost bees, it is not a pleasant experience. Now this is something which will probably be impossible to quantify, but I wonder how did imported bees and their crosses fare compared to AMM?
Without any doubt I am sorry for anyone who has lost bees, it is not a pleasant experience. Now this is something which will probably be impossible to quantify, but I wonder how did imported bees and their crosses fare compared to AMM?
Locally I don't see any difference DB.
The people with mongrels, and the people with native or near native bees all seem to have heavier than usual losses this winter.
The previous winter hardly anyone lost anything except people who did no varroa treatment or relied exclusively on the now ineffective Apistan.
Likewise, it's the colonies with queens from 2012 that are struggling, bar one. The rest are on 2011 queens (one with 2010) and seem to doing fine.Originally Posted by Jimbo
[QUOTE=Jon;16942]Locally I don't see any difference DB .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
It is similar where I keep my bees. Most colonies in that area are near AMM. A commercial beekeeper who regularly "acquires" Italian queens seems to have had virtual wipe outs in some of his apiaries. A kindly couple here were mislead into buying two colonies of Buckfasts / Fastbucks as a present for their daughter and son in law, these were well fed but died quite early on from dysentry and nosema, their two AMM stocks seem to be thriving. All I can say is hurry up Spring.
Last edited by Dark Bee; 30-03-2013 at 01:19 PM.
I think Italians are very gentle but not frugal enough for this part of Scotland
Re the Buckfasts though I suspect bought in colonies fail more often than people expect (all types)
Most of the commercial bees brought into East Scotland will be Carniolan (Murray McGregor etc)
The breeding stock for them comes from much harsher climate than our own (Germany for example)
Most Hybrids are mix of everything but probably lots of Carnie in there with local drones as well and they will be suited to this climate and tough.
I don't know how AMM would fare here depends where their from (they are imported now)nobody has any here except possibly in remote areas.
(They are on a lot of peoples wish list nevertheless)
Last edited by The Drone Ranger; 30-03-2013 at 02:36 PM. Reason: make clearer
Still too cold to lift crownboards but I've checked under the candy. No further losses so winter total is 1 lost to starvation (assisted by wasps), 1 to failed supersedure late in the summer, 1 to acarine. I had an interesting experience with two colonies who, unlike the others, hadn't touched their candy, let alone finished it. I lifted the candy (in transparent takeaway boxes) to check for live bees at the feed hole but this time turned it up to see how much they'd eaten ... AND FOUND THE PLASTIC LIDS STILL ON. As I can't remember whether I put these feeds on or if they were the ones my helpful other half said he'd do after locking up the hens (it was months ago), I don't know who should be sitting in the corner with the Dunce hat on. Most likely himself, as I'd done all the others and not left any lids on! Ah well, the bees are enjoying the bonus feed now!
Carnies are adapted for real winters, when all is cold and quiet, and sudden, predictable springs. What we have on offer is intermittent often damp and mild winters, erratic springs, essentially just weather that can't make its mind up. Which kind of bee will survive best in the environment we have to offer here - one adapted to the stop-start erratic stuff and which flies in cold weather, or one that is used to being frugal over a cold winter then takes all the brakes off and really revs the engines in early spring? I would really like to see some properly collected data on which types survives best in the hands of a high management beekeeper like Murray, and which survives best with the lower levels of management of some other bee farmers and some amateurs. I don't know what the answer is, that's why I would like to see it done, and I would like to see it done so that risk assessments can be made of the effect of huge importations of exotic queens and packages, as may happen after winters with high losses. These large-scale importations affect all of us in these regions, yet there is little consideration of the effect on others.
On the question of whether Amm is still around, most beekeepers in your area have stocks that owe a fair chunk of their heritage to Amm. One of the SBA surveys (one I helped organise) asked beekeepers what race they thought that they had. Something like 1/3 said Amm, 1/3 said Amm-ish mongrels, 1/3 said something else. It is the apiaries with recent importations of exotic stock- like yours DR - that don't seem to have much in the way of Amm heritage. Of course it may be wishful thinking, but it does reveal what many beekeepers would like to think they had.
I thought mine were more mongrel than they turned out to be when Jimbo did their wings; they're more AMM than I thought!
You should be OK Trog there can't be many commercial beekeepers on Mull and unless they grow rape there they won't be importing Carniolans from New Zealand
Hi Gavin
"asked beekeepers what race they thought that they had. Something like 1/3 said Amm, 1/3 said Amm-ish mongrels, 1/3 said something else. It is the apiaries with recent importations of exotic stock- like yours DR - that don't seem to have much in the way of Amm heritage"
I don't have any exotic stock Gavin Just what the commercial beekeepers bring to my doorstep because of the rape
In the ESBA newsletter there is a lady beekeper collecting swarms in bait hives close to where I am
They most likely come directly from a big bee operation and are whatever they chose to import that year are they polluting the gene pool? would they be local bees?.
In most years the drone pool will be controlled by the big operations, thats ok they wont be buying in rubbish queens etc, but they are geared up to their requirements, and for rape they choose Carniolans
That means we get them as crosses
The numbers of queens sold to individuals with a couple of hive would be dwarfed thats why I don't critisise people if they want to do it but recently adds are all about imported AMM queens and "local" Welsh blacks AMM at £75-00 from open matings.
What is driving that market for niche bees
How will they maintain the bloodline once they buy them
I'm off to the dog pound now to get a stray with soft fur and long ears, plus another with long legs will the puppies be just border collie lurcher crosses or could I convince myself they are Afgan hounds-----how about part Afgan Hound -- Quarter maybe?
Some of the Irish dog pounds have thoroughbreds!
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