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Thread: Any casualties yet?

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Default Any casualties yet?

    I have lost a couple of nucs already.
    These were ones I had marked as probably too weak to survive when I did a check in mid October. They were about 2 frames of bees at that stage, nucs made up late August which never got a chance to build up in the relentless rain..
    One of them had a little cluster of bees and the queen like one of Doris' fantasy football CCD colonies - so I tipped them into an apidea for the time being. The other was the one which I reported last weekend had a visit by a rat which had chewed through a couple of combs.
    I really should have combined a few of these weaker nucs a while back but they all have new queens and I was reluctant to squash any.
    I guess I should consider it as natural selection in action.
    I reckon I will find a couple more casualties when I apply the oxalic shortly.
    Some people might get a shock if they have not checked the bees since the late summer thymol treatment.
    I see elsewhere Murray McG is predicting a bad winter and I would concur with that as clusters seem smaller than usual. Some are likely to dwindle to nothing and there will likely be a few queen failures as well.
    last winter was brilliant. I only lost one basket case nuc and most local beekeepers had very few losses.
    this winter looks like being a lot tougher.
    I probably tried to increase too much from 17 to well over 30 but I met a guy in Stirling had increased from 20 to 60 this year. Wonder how his are doing?
    Last edited by Jon; 14-12-2012 at 10:06 PM.

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    Senior Member fatshark's Avatar
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    Midday tomorrow has 8 degrees and "sunny periods" predicted so I'll get round mine and look for activity, but won't open them until the OA in a fortnight or so. Very cold here yesterday - 7 below as I went to the airport (and much warmer when I arrived in Edinburgh!) - which might have hammered the really small clusters. Mini nucs are racked in the just-frost-free greenhouse ...

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Found another casualty today when I treated 11 colonies with Oxalic.
    This was also one I had marked down as very weak in mid october.
    It only had about 500 bees and a queen in the top corner of a couple of frames and they had died of a combination of cold and isolation starvation - near a little patch of sealed brood.
    I didn't have my camera with me but it was a perfect illustration of how a small colony can starve in cold weather with stores nearby.
    Might try and get a picture tomorrow.
    The others I treated, which were mostly nucs, were about as strong as I expected them to be and I would expect them to overwinter ok apart from one which is 50/50 to make it at this point.

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    Treated 7 of them yesterday with sublimated ox, 1 hive and 2nucs were trickle with ox these are in the front garden and was more about not freaking out the neighbours appearing in my goggles and gas filter. At 5'c they were all quite lively I'll hold off making predictions till April

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemphlar View Post
    Treated 7 of them yesterday with sublimated ox, 1 hive and 2nucs were trickle with ox these are in the front garden and was more about not freaking out the neighbours appearing in my goggles and gas filter. At 5'c they were all quite lively I'll hold off making predictions till April
    At 5C our neighbours are usually quite quiet!

    All ready and raring to go, but a wee chest infection has kept me away from the bees, and today we were in Edinburgh ...

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    Went to put some extra fondant on last week due to the freezing overnight temps. The previous one hasn't been touched and there were bees alive underneath.


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    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    20 to 60 colonies might be possible in a good year in the South - but the year wasn't good so maybe an increase to 60 is a bit optomistic. I wouldn't disagree with Murray either.

    Jon, I know what you mean about not wanting to squash good queens.

    This year I don't have any 5 frame nucs and I did combine some colonies (due to the queen not being to my liking mostly). I'll see how they are shortly as I haven't done the Oxalic thing yet. I do have a couple of smallish colonies - in my 8 frame Nationals. After thymol treatment and with a young queen, the colonies improved no-end in the late summer so I'm hopeful. Colonies were flying well on Saturday.

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    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Colony dynamics is a strange business.
    I have colonies in nationals which were very strong in September now down to 3 or 4 frames yet some of the nucs which were on 5-6 frames in September are currently as strong or stronger than the full colonies. Must be something to do with queen performance or maybe nosema affecting the longevity of the bees.
    Either way, going into winter with far more than you need looks like a good strategy and natural selection will weed out a few of the less viable ones.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Must be something to do with queen performance or maybe nosema affecting the longevity of the bees.
    Most likely a failed or failing queen in those which have lost bees? But yes, colony strength sometimes goes in an odd direction, even (or maybe especially) in spring as they pick up.

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    Administrator gavin's Avatar
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    Mine are looking good at the moment. Three of the four that went to the heather are really strong (see the oxalic acid thread) but another one is weaker. The others are OK except for one which looks too small. So no losses yet amongst mine but if I lose that weak one I'll not be surprised.

    At the association apiary one weak nuc has died but the other 6 small nucs in Paynes boxes and three larger ones in full sized boxed are OK so far. Have a feeling that I'll lose more of these before spring. Several were too weak and I knew that I was chancing it.

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