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Thread: Native Irish Honey bee Society

  1. #11
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Makes me wonder why there seems to be so little useful cooperation between beekeepers in England.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    The mixture of bee races in England will always make things complicated.
    The first step is to get a group together so that queens and queen cells can be produced from the best stock and distributed among the members.
    Our group in Belfast BKA has been running for two years now and although we still have details to iron out it is going from strength to strength.
    We had people attending from two neighbouring associations and are now hoping to cooperate between these three with regard to standardising nuc production for new beekeepers coming through.

    With regard to winter losses, why don't people carry a load of nucs through the winter as insurance?
    At the end of July I had about 30 mated queens in apideas so I made up a load of nucs for want of a better idea.
    I have 20 nucs and 7 apideas overwintering and assuming a reasonable percentage of them come through the winter, that is far more than I need myself for next season.
    There should be enough to sort out and replace any of my drone laying queens and maybe even supply a few of the beginners.

    People want nucs in April rather than July so overwintering is a good option and also demonstrates that the queen is viable.
    Lack of nucs in April is one of the main reasons people turn to imports.

  3. #13
    Senior Member prakel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    The mixture of bee races in England will always make things complicated.
    The first step is to get a group together so that queens and queen cells can be produced from the best stock and distributed among the members.
    Our group in Belfast BKA has been running for two years now and although we still have details to iron out it is going from strength to strength.
    We had people attending from two neighbouring associations and are now hoping to cooperate between these three with regard to standardising nuc production for new beekeepers coming through.
    I'm not sure that the mixture of races is too important -unless we restrict ourselves to trying to maintain one specific race which isn't really an important point from my own perspective. I think that it's best just to try and get good bees which we can manage easily and receive a return from at the end of the year.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    With regard to winter losses, why don't people carry a load of nucs through the winter as insurance?
    At the end of July I had about 30 mated queens in apideas so I made up a load of nucs for want of a better idea.
    I have 20 nucs and 7 apideas overwintering and assuming a reasonable percentage of them come through the winter, that is far more than I need myself for next season.
    There should be enough to sort out and replace any of my drone laying queens and maybe even supply a few of the beginners.

    People want nucs in April rather than July so overwintering is a good option and also demonstrates that the queen is viable.
    Lack of nucs in April is one of the main reasons people turn to imports.
    We've discussed this one before. I totally agree. It's by far the best way of maintaining operating numbers AND securing increase as well as being the best way I know of getting first class worker comb drawn -quickly.

    I do wonder whether some of the issue may be that people are scared of managing nuclei during the summer months (I may be very wrong here, but I've certainly read comments from various sources which seem to imply that making up and running nuclei is some kind of black art suitable only for the 'expert' beekeepers -who in my experience aren't always as expert as they themselves think!) so there's little chance of them wanting to risk overwintering nucs.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that the mixture of races is too important -unless we restrict ourselves to trying to maintain one specific race which isn't really an important point from my own perspective.
    You are probably right. I think any mix will settle down over time as long as new genetics is not introduced all the time in an uncontrolled way. I cannot believe that any population of bees in England is lacking in genetic diversity given the amount of queens imported over the years. It would be easier to start with one type and stick to it although that is probably not realistic in most places in England.

  5. #15

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    I think this is a very interesting thread, and a very positive initiative. I continue to be impressed by how organised and cooperative the Irish beekeepers are, and how queen raising is apparently instilled in beginners as just part of the work of the season. I don't want to read too much into the very scant details I have heard, but I am unsure how this sits with BIBBA. With such an overlap of objectives it could be concluded that the Irish might want to focus on their own activities rather than those of a broader umbrella group.

    There's a motion sculling around in BIBBA that was raised at this spring's AGM, relating to amending its purpose to include, where suitable AMM stocks are not available within an area, breeding from the best of the local stocks towards 'native' characteristics. This caused significant debate and I'm still not sure quite where it's got to in terms of committees and wording amendments and actually voting for or against. Some understandably saw it as totally against the ethos of BIBBA; I saw it as constructive and pragmatic, and therefore commendable.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post

    There's a motion sculling around in BIBBA that was raised at this spring's AGM, relating to amending its purpose to include, where suitable AMM stocks are not available within an area, breeding from the best of the local stocks towards 'native' characteristics. This caused significant debate and I'm still not sure quite where it's got to in terms of committees and wording amendments and actually voting for or against. Some understandably saw it as totally against the ethos of BIBBA; I saw it as constructive and pragmatic, and therefore commendable.
    Two thoughts
    1. BIBBA have not exactly been proactive in making AMM stocks available, even as "starters" to get a group going.
    2. Terry Claire must have trained hundreds of us to rear our own queens so,I presume he agrees with the above.
    Last edited by Black Comb; 01-12-2012 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Comb View Post
    1. BIBBA have not exactly been proactive in making AMM stocks available, even as "starters" to get a group going.
    Aye - and that's after a nearly 50 year history. They still appear to be at the proposal stage with much of the advanced stuff. Good ideas, like posting virgins for mating, but still just proposals. What the GBBG have achieved in 20 years appears a lot more tangible by comparison, principally because material is apparently readily available to those who request it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    The Galtee group produce plenty of queens but only distribute them in Ireland.
    That makes sense - as if you want to improve your background drone population there is no point in distributing queens here there and everywhere.
    The holy grail of bee breeding is to have a situation where open mating from queens grafted off your best stock should give good results.
    The Galtee queens really are very good. I have not bought one myself but I have introduced 3 daughters over the past 3 seasons and been very happy with their grafted offspring.
    They are very good tempered which gives the lie to those who repeat the mantra about black bees putting you out of the garden.
    Any bee race should give good results if you breed from the best and avoid crosses with other races.
    I can never understand why people buy in queens of different races and strains every year. You will never get anywhere with bee breeding if you do that. You need to pick one race or strain and stick with it and try to ensure that all your beekeeping neighbours are working with the same race. That's why it is better done through an association or a breeding group as opposed to an everyone for himself attitude. The other thing is, trying to browbeat people will not work as there is no law against importing and no law against keeping any race you want. The trick is to win people over by letting them see that your bees are better than theirs.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
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    Default minutes of the meeting

    The Irish Native Honey Bee Society
    Apis mellifera mellifera
    By Aoife Nic Giolla Coda, P.R.O.

    The gathering in Portlaoise on Sunday 25th November turned out to be a momentous occasion. It was the inaugural meeting of a society which was to be named on the day - ‘The Native Irish Honey Bee Society (Apis mellifera mellifera)'. The room was overflowing with people. This very much demonstrated the general desire for its establishment. The number in attendance was just a fraction of those around the country interested in the formation of this organisation.

    Without taking away from the important developments and decisions which were made at the meeting, the whole area of what name would be givern to the new organisation, caused a bit of controversy. Suggestions from the floor consisted of variations of the final name. After much discussion and a bit of consternation, it came to a vote and the final name was decided upon.

    The Acting Chairperson, Pat Deasy and Acting Secretary Colette O'Connell were elected Honorary Chairperson and Honorary Secretary respectively. They did an excellent job for the rest of the day, which would prove to be both interesting and informative with plenty of contributions from the floor. Sean Ó Fiannachta was elected Honorary Treasurer and Aoife Nic Giolla Coda was elected Honorary PRO.

    The aims and objectives were decided upon and finalised:

    Aims
    To promote the conservation, study, improvement and reintroduction of Apis mellifera mellifera, (Native Irish Honey Bee), throughout the island of Ireland.
    To establish areas of conservation throughout the island for the Native Irish Honey Bee.
    To promote the formation of Bee Improvement groups.
    To provide education on bee improvement and to increase public awareness of the values of the Native Irish Honey Bee.
    To act in an advisory capacity to groups and individuals who wish to promote the Native Irish Honey Bee.
    To co-operate with other bee-keeping organisations with similar aims.
    To seek the help of the scientific community and other stakeholders in achieving our aims and objectives.

    Objectives
    - To help establish areas of conservation throughout the island to preserve the Native Irish Honey Bee.
    - To liaise with bee-keepers with a view to establishing bee improvement groups.
    - To advise and encourage bee-keepers to promote our aims and objectives.
    - To establish a website which promotes our aims and objectives with links to organisations promoting similar aims and objectives
    - Where possible to provide information, leaflets, press releases etc.
    - To provide information as to where local improvement groups are established.
    - To provide information about ongoing events.

    A programme for 2013, was established which includes, bee improvement workshops, queen rearing, provision of nuclei, recruitment of members, vigilance of imports into areas particularly possible conservation areas and publicity.

    A Steering Committee was elected with representatives from each province. There was no shortage of nominations put forward and in some provinces the amount of committee positions was extended four and five. The committee consists of the following:

    Ulster: Jonathan Getty, David Dumican, William Blakely

    Connaught: Pat Finnegan, Mary Hyland, Gerard Coyne, Sean Osborne

    Munster: Jerry Cronin, Liam Rice, Frank Considine, Micheál Mac Giolla Coda, PJ Curran

    Leinster: Eoghan Mac Giolla Coda, John Summerville, Kieth Pierce, John Morgan

    The committee would urge those interested, to join - whether they are a member of a local bee breeding group, an individual beekeeper interested in breeding or just someone with an interest in conservation of Apis mellifera mellifera. There is power in numbers and it is essential that these numbers demonstrate their support for the various local strains of the Native Irish Honey Bee, (Apis mellifera mellifera) which is under threat and always will be under threat due to potential importations from around the world. This is also the position in a few other regions in Europe which still retain their owns strains of Apis mellifera mellifera. The society is open to all - whether they are a member of a beekeeping association or not. It is also an All-Ireland society - open to beekeepers from Northern Ireland. The society also hopes to form a good relationship with other national and international beekeeping organisations including FIBKA, UBKA, BIBBA, and SICAMM.

    From morphometry results carried out by Galtee Bee Breeding Group of over 1000 representative samples taken from nearly every county in Ireland, it has been proven that there are large populations of the Native Irish Honey Bee throughout the island of Ireland. Through the DNA samples carried out by Copenhagen University in 2000, it has been proven that we have a variety of strains of the Native Irish Honey Bee. Preserving these various strains throughout the country is of the utmost importance for the sake of future generations. We know that their traits are adapted to our environment and essential for the longterm sustainability of the honey bee in Ireland. To lose these traits in the future due to being overwhelmed by imported strains of honey bee would be devastating. Through the formation of this society, another step has been taken in its conservation and improvement. Membership is 20 euro for the year. If you wish to join, contact the secretary Colette O' Connell, Email: irishnativehoneybee@yahoo.com

  10. #20
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    Good luck to the Irish and yes they seem very organised.

    In Scotland though there is a major problem namely Perthshire mainly. There is a concentration of Bee Farmers there and they will continue to import I suspect for valid financial reasons.

    Being blessed with numerous islands a breeding program should be more than feasible.

    BIBBA. A complete waste of space.

    PH

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