Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Module 6 - a few one-point questions

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    1,884
    Blog Entries
    35

    Default Module 6 - a few one-point questions

    Hard to argue against that and I'm scratching my head to think of any other reason why you might view supersedure to be a disadvantage. Ultimately the bees are of the opinion that the queen is deficient and are replacing her; yet in comparison to swarming or emergency replacement it's a fairly benign process so outside of Jon's reasoning I'm struggling to think of any other reason why it might be considered disadvantageous.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    In my experience classic supersedure where both queens are present until the newcomer starts to lay is quite rare.
    A lot of the time the old queen seems to disappear just after the virgin emerges or before she is even out of the cell.
    When this happens in October, the colony is usually writing itself a suicide note.
    Some years I get queens mated in October but this year the last ones got mated around 8-10 September.

    In spite of what some say, they do try and supersede queens which have not a lot wrong with them. I have removed supersedure cells and had the original queen continue to lay well for another 18 months.

    'The bees know best' ?
    Not always.
    Last edited by Jon; 10-12-2012 at 12:05 AM.

  3. #13

    Default

    Only just seen this for some reason.

    - Name one disadvantage of supersedure.

    Timing, supply of drones, hence possiblity of poor mating.

    - A queen assesses whether a cell is suitable for a drone or a worker egg using her: ocelli; anterior metatarsals; tibial spurs; proboscis.

    Would need to check but since 'anterior metatarsals' sounds hind leg to me, so tibial spurs it is.

    - In a brood nest at its peak size, what are the proportion of eggs to larvae to sealed brood?

    If it's a steady-state peak size, then 1:2:4 as Gavin suggested.

    - What electrical phenomenon affects honey bee dances?

    Electromagnetic fields.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    1,884
    Blog Entries
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    'The bees know best' ?
    Not always.
    Natural selection, ignoring beekeeper intervention, at its purest. And with beekeeper intervention possible candidacy for the Darwin awards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    If it's a steady-state peak size, then 1:2:4 as Gavin suggested.
    Concur. Have a spreadsheet, plus graph that lets you play around with egg laying in a colony. 1:2:4 is very much an 'ideal' and will get you a tick on a one point question.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    South West Ireland
    Posts
    86
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    - A queen assesses whether a cell is suitable for a drone or a worker egg using her: ocelli; anterior metatarsals; tibial spurs; proboscis.

    Would need to check but since 'anterior metatarsals' sounds hind leg to me, so tibial spurs it is.

    .
    Surely anterior means front, posterior means rear??
    Ruary
    Last edited by Ruary; 11-12-2012 at 01:56 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #16

    Default

    These are hard question but if I can just chip in.

    I would put the main disadvantage of supercedure as there is no increase in colony numbers, which is the primary aim of swarming.

    The queen assessing a suitable cell is a bit of a guess. She doesn't use her proboscis or ocelli. Tibial spurs are around the knee area so would have to go for anterior metatarsals as they are front feet.

    Brood ratio has been mentioned and the weather one would be as Dan said (lightening)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    HI BF
    I would put the main disadvantage of supercedure as there is no increase in colony numbers
    I think it was Tom Seeley who found that natural swarms only have a 30% chance of becoming established so keeping a big strong colony through supersedure might make some sense from a colony survival point of view depending upon relative colony strength.
    I imagine a colony which supersedes its queen will also still swarm from time to time

  8. #18

    Default

    Two types of supersedure
    1. Inefficient (imperfect) supersedure is where the new queen emerges from her cell and kills her mother before mating and laying. This is inefficient because a gap in egg laying occurs
    Inefficient supersedure can occur at the “wrong time of year”. As mentioned by Dan it can result in a drone laying queen if there no/few drones to mate with. Also it if occurs early in April it hinders the build up needed for the colony to take advantage of early crops like Oil seed rape and if it occurs in July the brood gap can reduce the yield on late crops like Balsam and Heather.
    2. Efficient (perfect) supersedure is where the new queen emerges but her mother is not killed and continues to lay. The virgin will mate and she also lay. Eventually only the daughter queen will remain when her mother “disappears” presumably killed but this may be weeks or months later.
    This too can cause problems for the beekeeper if it occurs in a colony with undesirable characteristics which you want to requeen. You may not realise that supersedure has occurred and remove “the old queen” and then try to introduce a queen from a better strain. The introduction fails as there is the other queen in there.
    Also Bees with Nosema often supersede queens. Many beekeepers who have been selecting supersedure strains have inadvertently also been selecting for Nosema susceptibility.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    The 'inefficient' scenario is pretty much the only one I ever see and I also suspect it is linked to nosema.
    Another example of supersedure is when you try and introduce a new queen taken from an apidea which has only been laying for a short while.
    It's not unusual to see a supersedure cell appear after she has been laying for just a couple of weeks.

  10. #20

    Default

    Thanks Ruary, yes, anterior being front. Not sure why I got that one the wrong way round!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •