Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 93

Thread: Second trial replicating CCD with neonicotinoids.

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Second trial replicating CCD with neonicotinoids.

    Here is a Japanese report of an apiary-based trial on the effects over time on bee colonies, of various levels of two neonicotinoids which are routinely sprayed on Japanese rice paddies.
    To crudely summarise, all colonies fed neonics died with CCD symptoms; the controls did fine.

    There are problems with the quality of the translation, and it's possible that some forum members may criticise some of the trial parameters and methodology.

    Nevertheless, on the back of the Harvard study, this is a clear support for the case against neonicotinoids, is it not?

    See:

    http://www.bijensterfte.nl/sites/def...%282012%29.pdf

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    To crudely summarise, all colonies fed neonics died with CCD symptoms; the controls did fine.
    You need to get your head around the difference between ppm and ppb!

    neonicotinoids in pollen and nectar are found at the ppb level, 1-5 ppb typically.

    The Harvard study also fed bees pesticide at massive doses and claimed ccd when the bees were killed.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    You need to get your head around the difference between ppm and ppb!

    neonicotinoids in pollen and nectar are found at the ppb level, 1-5 ppb typically.

    The Harvard study also fed bees pesticide at massive doses and claimed ccd when the bees were killed.

    Don't patronise me. (ppm/ ppb)

    The levels fed were equivalents of varying dilutions (X 10, X 50, X 100) of the commercial spray levels, and ,as such, quite reasonable for this study.

    I'm suprised you never mentioned this trial if you already knew about it , or did you just read it in ten minutes?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    I read it earlier in the week. Someone posted it on biobees. The ppm/ppb thing is what renders it pointless. We all know that massive doses of pesticide are toxic.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I read it earlier in the week. Someone posted it on biobees. The ppm/ppb thing is what renders it pointless. We all know that massive doses of pesticide are toxic.
    So we all accept that if bees take up neonics from a sprayed crop at a hundredfold dilution of the actual spray strength, three months later the colony collapses?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    Bees feed on pollen and nectar. You need to test at the levels found in pollen and nectar. They don't feed on spray.

  7. #7

    Lightbulb 'ppb/ppm.' See the wood and the trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Bees feed on pollen and nectar. You need to test at the levels found in pollen and nectar. They don't feed on spray.
    Surely, the point is that these colonies, which had access to alternative food sources, as well as neonic-laced syrup, wilted and died over several months displaying classic CCD symptoms.
    When crops are sprayed, bees will take water, nectar, and pollen with varying levels of pollution. This study replicates such a range.
    Yes, there could be other trials with lower levels, for longer or shorter time periods,but none of the other threats to bees have been so clearly shown to produce CCD.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default

    We have neonicotinoids used widely in the UK and we don't have ccd.

    Neither this study nor the harvard study demonstrate CCD. Both demonstrate that bees die eventually when faced with massive doses of pesticide but surely that is not news.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    We have neonicotinoids used widely in the UK and we don't have ccd.

    Neither this study nor the harvard study demonstrate CCD. Both demonstrate that bees die eventually when faced with massive doses of pesticide but surely that is not news.
    This Japanese study also found that, contrary to pesticide licensing rules, dinotefuran does not significantly degrade in sunlight i.e. it is both systemic and persistent, which clearly increases its toxicity.
    Last edited by Johnthefarmer; 11-10-2012 at 01:47 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belfast, N. Ireland
    Posts
    5,122
    Blog Entries
    94

    Default


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •