Timescale to mate of virgin queens.

[Neils]

I admit it, I'm cramming up for module 6.

This seems like it should be a straightforward question and I have a timescale of about three weeks in my head but I can't find anything to back it up or tell me I'm wrong,

I know it's a few days after she emerges before she's ready to fly and I've known colonies take up to five weeks for a new queen to come into lay. In theory she should be ready to start laying 2-3 days after her last mating flight so is "approximately 4 weeks" a more reasonable time to be thinking in terms of a deadline for a virgin queen to mate?

[Jon]

The queen will take her first orientation flight about 4-5 days after emergence depending upon the weather.
She can mate from this point on and usually starts to lay 2 days after mating.
The earliest I have ever seen eggs is about 9 days after emergence.

A lot of the books say that a virgin is 'stale' ie cannot mate after 21 days from emergence but I would put the figure nearer to 4 weeks.
You might get marked wrong for that answer though.
Average for mine is 14-16 days from emergence. In June this year it was about 3 weeks.

[Adam]

I recall a number of 42 days, but don't know where from. (I'll try to have a look at Winston's Biology of the Honeybee which may have a reference to it). I have read of queens coming into lay 4 - 5 weeks from emergence.

[Neils]

That tallies with my understanding and I'd be inclined to use it, I just couldn't find a website or study saying Joe beekeeper NDB says "virgin queens are no good after x days/weeks".

Just as a side point on marking papers as we have a couple of people who are/were involved with the BBKA education programme in our association, they've always stated that in many cases if you provide justification for your answer, it is less likely to be marked wrong even if it appears to be slightly against conventional wisdom, as long as you're demonstrating an understanding of the matter at hand.

Granted this is a one point question on the paper so an essay isn't required, but I'd be inclined to answer something along the lines:
"On the basis that it can take up to 5 weeks for my new queens to start laying, a Virgin queen can mate up to approximately 4 weeks after emerging."

This isn't the first year that I've put frames of eggs into colonies after 4 weeks to find a laying queen on the next inspection.

[Jon]

It is also easy to miss a small patch of eggs checking after 3 weeks and when you look at 4 weeks there is a patch of sealed brood.

[Black Comb]

Winston says
"queens can postpone mating flights for up to 4 weeks after their emergence if weather conditions do not permit flight, but beyond that time they begin to degenerate and lay drone eggs"

Davies says
"queens are able to mate only during the first 4 weeks of their lives"

Laidlaw and page say
"under usual seasonal flight conditions the queen will take her nuptial flights between the fifth and fourteenth day after emerging from her cell. If she is confined to the hive by unfavourable weather conditions for a period of approximately 3 weeks ...... she may become a drone layer."

[Neils]

Now that ties into another area around unmated virgin queens, namely what happens if she doesn't mate?

The obvious answer is that she'll be a drone layer. But while doing some reading around I came across a number of discussions where various of Beekeepers were adamant than an unmated queen wouldn't come into lay at all.

[Jon]

Usually they turn into drone layers but this year I have come across a couple which laid worker brood for a few weeks and then just stopped altogether.
A poorly mated queen usually starts off laying a mixture of drone and worker brood and then quite quickly is laying 100% drone.

I had a queen last year in an apidea which I forgot to open for 11 days.
I opened it and the queen had started to lay 2 days later so certainly made up for lost time.
I still have that queen in a colony at the bottom of the garden which produced 90lbs of honey this year.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... what happens if she doesn't mate?

Usually they turn into drone layers but this year I have come across a couple which laid worker brood for a few weeks and then just stopped altogether. ...

An unmated queen laying worker brood? Did you mean to say she was unmated, Jon?
Kitta

[Jon]

Sorry I am complicating matters unnecessarily! I reckon those ones mated but mated very poorly and for some reason then stopped laying altogether.
They usually turn into drone layers when they run out of sperm in the spermatheca so I don't know why they just stopped laying altogether in these cases.