The acceptance/rejection rate in that research was very significant though and directly correlated to queen age.
Large scale queen rearers are perhaps more worried about volume and turnover than other factors.
Tried the press in cage a few years ago and had problems with it. The workers sometimes got in under it too quickly and killed the queen.
lol. That's my Scottish holiday on hold for another year!Originally Posted by Kate Atchley
On the subject of queen age, a lot of the oldtime queen breeders were doubtful of shipping queens which had been in full lay for some time, often suggesting that such queens should be weaned off lay for a couple of days before caging. This is something which seems to have been lost in the mists of time. Whether there was any basis to their thinking I can't really say, but it's easy to imagine why they could have come to such a conclusion.
The number of days in a cage in the post would also be a factor.
Having said that, one of mine turned up after 23 days and the queen was still alive.
I had sent a replacement a couple of days after posting when it did not turn up.
Anyone selling queens surely waits for the brood to be sealed to ensure it is not a DLQ?
That's not the custom of the international trade. The experienced eye can see pretty well immediately if the queen is a good one or not. Jolanta has proven more or less infallible in that respect, and any in doubt she marks for me to assess when I am next at the mating boxes....which...while we had the one place was next to my home, so pretty well daily. Have had zero complaints of drone layers being supplied and only 2 or 3 % in our own nucs, and we keep all the slightly questionable ones ourselves. Anything not looking correct can be left for a further period to see what happens, or more likely given the big crunch and a new ripe cell added.
Jon questioned the motives. Its a business, so if you want to ascribe greed or whatever to it feel free, but these people are shipping out their queens in the thousands. Biggest one I know does 20,000 a week. One has 70,000 mating boxes (all singles btw)Waiting for sealed brood sharply reduces the throughput, delays the supply to the customer, and the percentage uplift is far greater than any loss rate from them not being correctly mated. These producers also ALL stand by their product, and reasonable replacements, even the whole shipment of hundreds of queens sometimes, will be reshipped FOC if there is a serious problem.
I was always happy to buy them newly laying and only once was there an issue that was not resolved properly. USA shipment in the 80's...slow to lay...many never did....queens seen flying. Team had gone round a mating yard far too fast and seen the brood and eggs, and harvested over 100 virgins just hatched, thinking they were laying. Got a replacement shipment but not the type I wanted and the issue rumbled on for a couple of years.
If you want to wait for sealed brood in those places you increase the turnround time by at least 50%. They exist in a competitive world and are selling queens for a very low figure, often 1in the 10 or 12 pounds range. Slow things down and put the price up? the customer goes elsewhere for cheaper....as fresh laying is good enough.
So....is it producer greed or customer requirements? The latter leads, and if the breeder regularly supplied duff shipments than the would not have their big customers for long.
I seen on the Facebook page of Scottish Bee Keepers someone looking to import Queens from Argentina??
If it's the page I'm thinking of please don't confuse it with the actual SBA FB page Greengage (you may not have anyway!). It's a page run by an individual and is in no way representative of scottish beekeepers.
Last edited by drumgerry; 17-03-2016 at 07:25 PM.
Well there's at least one very prominent queen breeder in Argentina. They have some 'interesting' videos showing their methods on youtube too (for those who find it difficult to shut off when it comes to bees). When I spoke to the guy a few years ago (about something totally different) he said that there's a min order requirement of 300 to make it worthwhile for him to send queens to the UK. That may have changed of course.
Lots of the big guys abroad have that requirement. Australia, NZ, Argentina.......the only permitted third 9non EU) countries at present......do not send queens by mail. They must go by air freight.....and that renders small shipments non viable, though they WILL sometimes do it if you offer to pay the full minimum freight. For airfreight you also need to appoint a forwarder and clearing agent....all costs....and pay a fee for them to come through the Animal Reception Centre at Heathrow. Its far from simple.
However, Malka queens from Argentina, if you choose the correct one for your area, are nice bees. Very gentle. Personally not had them for several years and there problem for me was insufficient honey produced.
If you check the import statistics on beebase you will see its a regular trade.
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