Poly hive musings.

[gavin]

I regularly use three in a box splits with cover boards and have just seen the apparently (?) gradual depletion of the queenless splits. Interesting to read of walking across. I'll look out for it.

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[prakel]

...I suppose the same is true when you use a Snelgrove board the bees have two queens but they don't fight when you lift the top box down
If you use a solid floor and make a vertical split then there is fighting when the top box comes off to inspect the bottom one because they are two separate hives

I know that there are plenty of write ups on two queen systems available to us but an easily accessible discussion can be found in those 'Sustainable Apiary' videos of Michael Palmer (possibly part 2) where he discusses running two nucs in a split box with just an excluder to separate them from communal supers; as long as the queens are confined to their own compartment the rest of the bees get on OK.

[fatshark]

That's interesting prakel but what's the advantage if two nuc-sized boxes? Surely the benefits come from a two queen system heaving with bees and consequently storing loads of nectar. I ran a 'Twinstock' split brood box last year and had to take frames out to stop them boiling over. In fairness I've not watched the Palmer videos all the way through and probably will now wait to see him at the National Honey Show ... apologies if the answer is in part 2 of the Sustainable Apiary.

[prakel]

He wasn't specifically using a two queen system as such but rather, making the point that the nucs can 'overflow' storage into a communal super without fighting. It was just an easy example for me to draw attention to. He does go on to mention that using the supers can create a stores deficit in the nuc boxes when it comes to preparing for winter -he may even have discontinued the practice on those grounds but I'd have to refresh my memory on that one.

[prakel]

Bad points ... Finally, because of the need to have the divider reach the floor, it's not possible to stack one divided 'brood' box on top of another, for example to enable uniting of 2 x 3 frame nucs with a 6 frame nuc below. This would be useful ...

I'll try and remember to update this thread if I get bees through the winter in these ...

Hi fatshark, just a thought on this one, would it be possible to cut down the divider so that it's the same depth as the box and to add a central partition to the floor? Maybe the interlocking design of these boxes would make the whole thing just that bit too fiddly to justify? I've no hands on experience with these boxes but they do look the part (nice conversion solution too).

[BYF]

I think you will find that a divided box on top of a divided box while it can be done is not worth the effort. Tricky to deal with. Can not easily look below on one half, etc. He uses a divided box downstairs and 4 frame nuc boxes upstairs- one on each side. They fit over the box below and take a US style telescoping cover.

Hi fatshark, just a thought on this one, would it be possible to cut down the divider so that it's the same depth as the box and to add a central partition to the floor? Maybe the interlocking design of these boxes would make the whole thing just that bit too fiddly to justify? I've no hands on experience with these boxes but they do look the part (nice conversion solution too).

[fatshark]

Hi fatshark, just a thought on this one, would it be possible to cut down the divider so that it's the same depth as the box and to add a central partition to the floor? Maybe the interlocking design of these boxes would make the whole thing just that bit too fiddly to justify? I've no hands on experience with these boxes but they do look the part (nice conversion solution too).

That might work but would be a bit tricky to make. For the central divider it would be straightforward. There are 'slots' to accommodate it moulded into both the body and the floor sections of the poly. However, since this is also a Langstroth to National conversion I would also have to have upper and lower end panels splitting the same way. Possibly beyond my limited wood butchery skills.

Welcome to the forum BYF ... my real interest is not to have stacked divided boxes. Instead it is to allow me to unite an upper divided box (for example in which two queens have been mated, checked for performance and then sold/donated/used to requeen a production hive) with a lower box that is undivided. If the lower is queenright and the upper two are not a standard newspaper unite would - within a few days - generate 12 frames which could then be moved to a standard National brood box.

This isn't a deal breaker, just something that might suit the way I tidy up colonies at the end of the season.

[prakel]

I think you will find that a divided box on top of a divided box while it can be done is not worth the effort. Tricky to deal with. Can not easily look below on one half, etc. He uses a divided box downstairs and 4 frame nuc boxes upstairs- one on each side. They fit over the box below and take a US style telescoping cover.

Hi BYF, good to see you posting! I'd totally agree on this one myself, but think that fatshark was referring more to the option of being able to unite the two (3 comb) nucs in a divided box to a single 6 comb nuc... the simplest way of course might just be to add the 6 comb box above the divided nuc and either close one of the entrances from the start or sort that aspect out when the unite has been completed.

I think it's the specific nature of the division which also incorporates 'reducers' and feeder compartments to allow long lugged British style frames to be used in a box designed for the Langstroth system that's muddying the water a little; my own home made nucs are designed so that the division can simply be pulled out to effect uniting, similar to what I imagine you guy's often use.

[edit: I've cross posted with fatshark on this subject. His post either wasn't showing on my screen through some fault when I started typing or, my photos took even longer to load that it felt like!].

At the risk of drifting too far off the topic of poly hive musing(!), a couple of shots of my three way boxes with and with out divisions... (the combined box is showing variances in some of my early frame spacing attempts -it's taken some error along with the trials to get to the point where I think I've solved the issue. Now I just need to gradually respace everything to a standard pattern).

[fatshark]

... the simplest way of course might just be to add the 6 comb box above the divided nuc and either close one of the entrances from the start or sort that aspect out when the unite has been completed.

D'oh! Why didn't I think of that? That would work. I think it's because I always do unites with the queen in the bottom box, almost always moving the weaker colony. With your suggestion this would be reversed. Funny how habit takes precedence over common sense.

[lindsay s]

I have just purchased two Everynucs from Thrones for my Smith frames. Their half the price of wooden nucs so I thought I would give them a go. Before they arrived I was having nightmares about hacking them to bits with my hive tools, setting fire to them with my smoker and wondering how long it would be before they ended up in Norway. They have arrived so here are my first impressions.
The brood box is for much bigger frames but has been adapted by adding the wooden feeder.
The Everynuc is strong and it can take 15 stone kneeling on the top of it (that was me) so I’ll have no worries about weighing them down.
The clear plastic inner cover should stop the bees from being crushed when the roof goes on but is liable to sag in the middle. I’ll use a strip of wood to support it which I’m sure the bees will cover in propolis.
The top bee space is a bit narrow but I’ll be able to adapt it.
35-40mm clearance between the bottom of my frames and the mesh floor so I’ll expect to see plenty of brace comb
The 175mm wide entrance will definitely have to be closed down; I’ll use a bit of mesh so the air can flow through.
My next task is to give them a lick of paint. Being a newbe to this poly lark I’ve got two questions.1 I don’t intend to use the wooden feeders so does it matter if their at the front or the back of the brood box. I don’t think it will make any difference to the warmth of the nuc but I might be wrong. 2 Given the clearance between the bottom of the frames and the floor I intend to leave the inspection tray closed to cut down on the draught will this be ok.