Poly hive musings.

[Neils]

Interesting thoughts and I would like to hear more of your thinking on this subject, but perhaps this isn't the right thread. I've no real experience of poly beyond mating nucs but as my post on the home made mating nuc thread earlier this week showed, even in this area I'm looking towards making my own in wood and will be putting ten into winter alongside eight poly versions. They've already proven themselves as suitable for mating the queens (no difference to the poly boxes) in a rather dreary summer so now it's just a case of how they perform over winter and more importantly next Spring.

To break out of the other thread.

I bought two Paynes 14x12 hives this year, one of which I currently have a colony of bees in. I'm pretty sure I posted my initial thoughts on here, with some pics, at the time.

I know there are other suppliers etc etc but I can only give my thoughts on a summer of using Payne's hive.

I didn't do anything to the hive other than put bees in it and that is possibly my first mistake. Since then here are my thoughts:

Payne's supply a clear plastic sheet as a "crown board" on a bottom bee space hive (made by Bayer ironically enough). This is diffult to put in place without trapping or squishing bees on the top bars. I do now use a standard crown board but this means that the roof is very loose. Paynes do supply a cargo strap with each hive but I find a brick works just as well keeping it in place.

as soon as I put bees in it they started to chew the top of the side walls, they've continued to do this pretty much since day one.

Now they've added propolis to the mix taking the frames out tends to bring some of the poly wall with it.

Generally the poly construction isn't as dense as an apidea and it tends to damage easily as a result. I gather you can treat the hives with varnish? to make them a bit more durable.

On the plus side the bees seem to have done pretty well in them, national kit does fit on fine and, as suppliers go Paynes have been pretty good and the rest of their stuff is pretty top notch.

The proof might well be how they do over winter compared to the cedar hives and I know I'm one of the more southerly "Scottish" beekeepers but I can't say I've ever had a problem overwintering in wood hives.

[Jon]

I had a look at one of those Paynes poly hives for the first time yesterday and I did not like it.
1. There are no runners so the frames are stuck down by the entire lug and if you have bees which use a lot of propolis you could easily damage the poly. It took me several minutes to get the first frame out.
2. The box I looked at yesterday also had a home made crown board so users obviously have an issue with the inner cover.
3. Did not notice any chewing of the poly
4. There was a large brood area relative to the number of bees so I guess that is probably the main advantage of poly, faster build up.

[fatshark]

There's a thread elsewhere on the Paynes polynucs, with some solutions to the issues raised by Jon. You can easily add runners, converting them to bottom bee space. I use a 2mm perspex crown board. Since the frames are now flush with the rim of the box I simply slide it along gently and the bees go down readily enough. My main issue is with the feeder, which is too narrow and a pain to empty if there are bees in the box (for example, removing fermenting syrup). I've covered the feeder with gaffer tape and use a frame feeder instead.

The entrance on the original Paynes polynucs was rubbish ... I pinned a small correx landing platform underneath to help the girls home.

However, the exact same problem Jon highlights with the frame lugs getting stuck down applies to the Modern Beekeeping poly nationals. These have runners, but they're ridged with a broad contact area for the lugs. I've used one of these boxes for most of this season and it's driven me nuts. To compound the issue:

• the box is marginally too narrow meaning the ends of the lugs - if propilised - are a tight squeeze and so don't slide along the runners.

• the QE gets stuck to the super above, even after liberal use of vaseline covering the contacting faces of the brood box and super

• the box is incompatible with other national equipment - aside from not being able to simply stack boxes up this means you also need dedicated QE's, crown boards, clearer boards etc. I've ended up building a sort of wide 'shim' to allow uniting a wood national (below) with a poly national (above)

• the curved corners and overhanging lip of the supers means you have to align the box directly when stacking - combined with the relatively wide interacting faces this can lead to a lot of casualties if the boxes are packed with bees

They are nice and light and the quality of the poly is very high. However, the issues above mean that my two boxes will be being traded for cedar at the end of this season.

I should add that I have a number of Sweinty poly supers and am very pleased with them. These stack well with cedar national boxes and - with the addition of castellated spacers - work well as supers.

[gavin]

Was nodding approvingly at all of that FS (don't have any MB kit myself) until I hit the last line. What?! You've spoiled it all now. That counts as trolling!

[fatshark]

Was nodding approvingly at all of that FS (don't have any MB kit myself) until I hit the last line. What?! You've spoiled it all now. That counts as trolling!

Eh? Was it the mention of Sweinty or the castellations? The former are justified as I bought a load for about £6 each. Nice and light (particularly this year ) and with handles on four sides. Castellations? I've always used them. I start them off at 11 to a box and work up to 8 or 9 to a box by which time the comb usually can't withstand my over-enthusiastic centrifugation.

Prakel makes a good point. I dislike painting the poly boxes before use - too many nooks and crannies - and it would be good to be able to use them directly. Although I do usually paint my cedar boxse (camouflage) the sides are flat so it takes minutes.

[Neils]

Castellations are good for one thing... turning upside down and using as emergency frame runners.

Given the choice between burning evangelical, "natural", beekeepers or castellated spacers at the stake I'll take the latter every time

[Poly Hive]

From the perspective of some years of use I will make the following comments.

Poly boxes area push fit and so the timetaken to paint them is in my view part of the construction and takes me some five minutes if that a box. I do not varnish them and never have in over 20 years of using.

Longlevity. I can post you some pics of poly langstroths owned by a friend of mine from Ross-Shire which are some 35 years old and going strong.

Runners. Never used them and see no need to.

If the bees are chewing the poly it is not hard enough and so the boxes are not fit for purpose. Contact the supplier.

Plastic CB... *LOL* Bin it and use either nothing or a 12mm ply one.

Roofs. I put a brick on mine as I use it for messages. For winter I double the bricks as I no longer need the brick code I use in the active season.

The problem at the moment is there are some pretty poor units on sale and as ever buyer beware. What do I buy? Swienty and never so far had an issue.

PH

[nellyp]

All of my wooden roofs have full depth of celotex incorpoaretd in them so why waste more money on blow a way roofs.

[Mellifera Crofter]

In a word cost.

It is possible to make say three roofs from ply and insulate the top only using say 2" of insulation material for the cost of a poly roof. The insulation value is very similar and if making a deeper roof side then it is frankly a better roof than the off the peg poly as they are terribly skimpy on the side depth.

PH

All of my wooden roofs have full depth of celotex incorpoaretd in them so why waste more money on blow a way roofs.

I don't know about the cost. Perhaps it is cheaper, but I wouldn't want to spend all that time fluffing about making new roofs to fit poly boxes when made-to-fit poly roofs come with the hives. The roofs of the Bee Hive Supplies polys have very generous and sturdy overhangs - but I agree, some of the others have no overhang at all.

But either way - big overhang or not - it doesn't really matter as far as blow-away roofs are concerned because I tie all my hives down - whether wood or poly. Don't you?
Kitta

[Poly Hive]

Not everyone buys by the "complete hive" apart from my first one I don't think I ever have. All mine have come as parts, and I have made as much as I could, as you do when working on a scale. I have always used bricks on mine, two on poly and one on wooden when I had them not so much as security for the roofs but as information units. A brick can tell a lot of tales if used to do so.

It makes working an apiary much faster if at a glance the problem units can be instantly identified. They then would be worked first.

PH