Fondant

I used fondant this winter instead of the usual sugar bags, the results have not been great with the bees hardly touching it.
Lost one hive to isolation starving although they had a block of fondant 10mm above the cluster, they had eaten a little of it but not enough to keep them going, although it was well wrapped it appears to have dried out.
I had 2 nucs with Perspex covers where I had been judging their needs by the depletion of the fondant, but when I opened them they had few stores but again had hardly touched the fondant.
Judging by the success of others using this for winter feed I'm obviously missing something

Sorry to hear that nemphlar. I almost exclusively use fondant for winter feeding. However, I add it - in full blocks cut in half and laid over the top of the QE on the brood box - immediately I remove the summer harvest. They take it all down before I shut them up for the winter. I still lost one to isolation starvation, but think it was due to the colony size and temperature, not the type of stores. If the fondant block dries out they need water to process it.

I also use fondant and most often add it after the December oxalic trickle (not that I'm recommending that, it is just a way to top up when I didn't give enough autumn feed or they used it to make bees). With any winter feed the proximity to the bees matters. That 10mm gap is enough, in cold weather, to prevent the bees getting there. More of a problem in weaker colonies, less of an issue in strong ones, in warmer weather, and when the bees have already become accustomed to going up for it.

As FS says putting it straight on the queen excluder works well. Over the crownboard feed hole is less good. Could that be the difference between your soaked sugar bags and your fondant feeding?

Use fondant feeding a lot on those back from the heather too late to effectively feed them syrup in late autumn. Have never had this result in isolation starvation.

However, have seen others make a few errors that COULD result in it happening.

1. The large blocks (unless you are using the prepacks) should be cut up. We use quarter blocks, most important that you then place this inside another bag, HD vest carriers are perfect, but your old cheaper supermarket carriers are just as good if a bit large. Slash the surface of the bag with two parallel cuts about half and inch or a bit more apart, and peel the strip of plastic back, exposing the fondant. Lay this cut down on top of the cluster, across the way, so that some part of the cut is in contact with EVERY seam of bees. If the cluster is two big use two bags of fondant (so half a block). In exceptional circumstances you can just fold the blue wrapper on a whole block back a bit and invert the block over the cluster, again with the exposed part spanning the cluster.

It is important that the upper surface of the block is NOT exposed as this is where the drying can take place. With the block only open on the underside in contact with the bees the fondant stays moist, and the warmer moist air from the cluster rises up into the eating area, keeping the working surface of the fondant very soft and edible. The fondant is both somewhat hygroscopic and cooler, so condensation also comes into play with maintaining the softness.

We just lay this across the topbars in direct contact with the seams of bees, never leave an excluder on, and absolutely never feed above a feedhole, indeed destroyed or patched all the old feedhole cover boards years ago.

Once the blocks are largely used up just lift one edge of the old bags (no need to remove them, they keep some warmth down, and the bees will tidy up any fondant that remains) and slip a new block underneath. Same rules all the time. Make sure every seam of bees has access tot he cut face.

Fondant fed bees are generally not greatly different to syrup fed bees for strength come springtime, and often take off faster due to less constriction of the nest with sealed stores, and access to the fondant mimicking a very light flow causing a mild stimulus. Only the earliest syrup fed colonies show any advantage, and even that is inconsistent.(Earliest for us means before the end of Sept in wooden hives, and before mid Oct in polys.)

Thanks for comments, as usual not a single point of failure in this hive, there were 8 completely empty frames around this cluster despite being fed late syrup last year, they didn't process enough late on and stopped taking it down, poor queen with probably old bees around OA treatment when the fondant was added and dwindled later. I understand that in a really cold winter 10 mm is probably too far, but a reasonable sized cluster in the mild winters we've had recently ought to manage. The sugar bag does seem to either maintain or draw cluster moisture more effectively than the fondant
C4u does the removal of the cover leave a rather large air space above the cluster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nemphlar

Thanks for comments, as usual not a single point of failure in this hive, there were 8 completely empty frames around this cluster despite being fed late syrup last year, they didn't process enough late on and stopped taking it down, poor queen with probably old bees around OA treatment when the fondant was added and dwindled later. I understand that in a really cold winter 10 mm is probably too far, but a reasonable sized cluster in the mild winters we've had recently ought to manage. The sugar bag does seem to either maintain or draw cluster moisture more effectively than the fondant
C4u does the removal of the cover leave a rather large air space above the cluster

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One or two points jump out at me from your reply.

Not taking syrup down in autumn, when others in the same group are is always a danger signal. In our unit a high proportion of these colonies will perish in the coming winter.
8 empty frames. Did you put this colony into winter with only three or four seams of bees? We do not expect a high winter success rate in these either, but add in OA treatment if by trickle and you have a serious problem. OA is savage on colonies that are small and can be the final blow that sees them off.

Surprised you find that the sugar bag is more effective at maintaining moisture than the fondant. It is in permeable paper bag while the fondant is in impermeable plastic, but having only done the sugar bag method one season in my earlier years I do not have enough relevant experience to pass much comment on that.

Large air space above the cluster is a point often made and is common sense. If it is a worry then you can always lay some insulation over the top of the fondant. Fleece, bubble wrap, sacking, the old hay sack idea, all can be done. For some reason it seems to make little difference. We usually just put the fondant on the top bars and have an inverted feeder over the top. (These are full size hive top feeders, Ashforth style, not contact type.) Cover board then just sits on top of that lot.

I normally add sugar bags when I open them to do the OA treatment,sublimation from the top, around December on this occasion they were on 4 frames near the side. I moved the clearer hole over the cluster and placed the fondant over them. Although the Q was that year she didn't really take off as I would expect and were most likely doomed.
I don't have any ash forth feeders so my eke is an empty super
The nucs had the fondant on the frames and still didn't seem to take much though the frames were empty, it did seem to dry and harden if not used quite quickly and if the bees couldn't access water then it is pointless. The sugar crystals appear to draw the moisture from the saturated air above the cluster

Do you make your own fondant?

I make my own fondant . 1kilo bag of sugar . 300 ml water about 25 mg glucose powder ,
Method .
I tip the sugar into a large sauce pan . I add 300ml of boiling water into a measuring jug,
Stir the glucose into the water until dissolved .
Tip into the saucepan stir until sugar partially dissolved .
Turn on the heat stirring until the mixture starts to boil !
Then stick in your jam thermometer and stop stirring .
Meanwhile fill a bowl with cold water .
Keep checking the fondant, when it reaches the temperature of soft boil 240f , remove from heat ,place pan in the cold water , commence stirring ,
When the mixture starts turn in white and thickening , pour onto a worktop that has been sprinkled with some cold water !
Start kneading the " dough" to remove any lumps in it so its nice and smooth !
Slip it into a ziplock freezer bag .
If necessary you can carry on kneading it in the bag [emoji2]
Store until wanted , then ( at the apiary ) slice a window out of the bag and plonk it over the feed hole ?
Safety ! When initial kneading , keep the bowl of cold water near by to plunge your hands in if they get hot or a bit of hot fondant gets stuck on them [emoji6]
Takes longer to describe than to accomplish [emoji12]



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