Double brood box..... and queen cells

I have seen it stated in various forums and also in books that it is safe to take it as read that if you open the two boxes by leaning the top one back any cells can easily be seen.

I had a suspect colony last week so I tipped back the top brood after removing the supers and nothing to be seen. Still suspicious I looked further and there were a good 30+ cells over four frames, half in the top and half in the bottom and not a cell on the periphery all neatly in the middle.

Keep in mind: "Bees do noting invariably"

PH
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These are really only suitable tips for those who are 'playing the averages'. Yes its a quick and simple way to be about 95% sure..............but

The downside is the time needed when there ARE issues..........makes operating double deeps with last year or older queens in the swarming season an unmanageable task. Have seen a team take all day in an apiary of doubles, a large proportion of which were into swarm preps. Its a major faff around trying to sort that mess out, not knowing where the queen is, and if she is a 'runny' type and fined down for flight........goes WAY over the time budget unless you get lucky.

If a full strength double DOES swarm and fly off then its Christmas for the recipient................rather less than Christmas for the beek who loses it. But in May you can knock down all the cells bar one (not two....ever! despite what tradition might say) and check again in a week and sort out any emergency cells they also start off...........and you can still have a cracker again for the heather in August.

Exactly. The association now has a number of nucs....LOL

PH

Only my second year of working with bees - I decided [why oh why!] to have a double brood & popped on a super below the QE - the idea was to build a strong colony.
So, firstly looking for Q cells was a nightmare & after the inevitable swarm I've been left with the double Brood Box and wondering now how to 'shrink' them back down to one box as the new queen is ignoring the larger Brood Box and building everything in the smaller [Super] though the workers are storing some nectar etc downstairs in the larger box.
It will be a while before I have a double brood box again - and any ideas of what to do in the autumn will be gratefully absorbed.

Put all; the frames with brood in the bottom box and use a clearer board to get the remaining bees out the top box. If a bunch refuse to clear then the Q may be in there. Otherwise pretty straight forward.

PH

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Originally Posted by Calluna4u

These are really only suitable tips for those who are 'playing the averages'. Yes its a quick and simple way to be about 95% sure..............but

The downside is the time needed when there ARE issues..........makes operating double deeps with last year or older queens in the swarming season an unmanageable task. Have seen a team take all day in an apiary of doubles, a large proportion of which were into swarm preps. Its a major faff around trying to sort that mess out, not knowing where the queen is, and if she is a 'runny' type and fined down for flight........goes WAY over the time budget unless you get lucky.

If a full strength double DOES swarm and fly off then its Christmas for the recipient................rather less than Christmas for the beek who loses it. But in May you can knock down all the cells bar one (not two....ever! despite what tradition might say) and check again in a week and sort out any emergency cells they also start off...........and you can still have a cracker again for the heather in August.

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Originally Posted by Poly Hive

Put all; the frames with brood in the bottom box and use a clearer board to get the remaining bees out the top box. If a bunch refuse to clear then the Q may be in there. Otherwise pretty straight forward.

PH

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Thanks - will do this :)

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Originally Posted by Medb

..... as the new queen is ignoring the larger Brood Box and building everything in the smaller [Super] though the workers are storing some nectar etc downstairs in the larger box.

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I suspect that Pete thought you had a full-sized brood box over another full sized brood box. It looks like you have a super over a brood box. If so, swapping frames between top and bottom boxes isn't going to be possible.

You could swap the boxes and put your super underneath if the brood is all in the super. Then feed until they have everything they need for winter. In early spring the super underneath will be empty and can be taken away. Alternatively just feed them as they are and sort it out next season.

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Originally Posted by gavin

Alternatively just feed them as they are and sort it out next season.

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Increasingly this is the way I think at this time of the year ;)

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Originally Posted by gavin

Alternatively just feed them as they are and sort it out next season.

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Also a good way of securing brood and stores which can then be used to create a group of shallow frame mating nucs too.

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Originally Posted by gavin

I suspect that Pete thought you had a full-sized brood box over another full sized brood box. It looks like you have a super over a brood box. If so, swapping frames between top and bottom boxes isn't going to be possible.

You could swap the boxes and put your super underneath if the brood is all in the super. Then feed until they have everything they need for winter. In early spring the super underneath will be empty and can be taken away. Alternatively just feed them as they are and sort it out next season.

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I have the same issue - bees congested in a super, with brood and food and an almost empty brood box beneath. Frames so stuck together cells are damaged removing them, which means I've not checked many for fear of causing robbing through spilled honey. A this year virgin queen who started laying in June. I don't like what has become a "brood and a half" set up,much preferring the double brood ability to interchange frames at will.
So, I'll follow the advice and put the super below and feed. This season it's been a mess!