Took my rape honey off three weeks ago. Half has been bottled, and half is still in the bucket. It was my first big haul, and I didn't realise it would set so quickly and solidly. Can I still heat it up, and "seed" it with clover honey?
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Took my rape honey off three weeks ago. Half has been bottled, and half is still in the bucket. It was my first big haul, and I didn't realise it would set so quickly and solidly. Can I still heat it up, and "seed" it with clover honey?
Personally, I'd keep the two types separate. Clover honey will granulate anyway.
Many folk let the rape honey set in buckets (I let mine set in the combs this year - doh!) then warm it just enough to get it moving. Stir it and bottle it. It will remain soft set, better than the frosted hard stuff that you get when you let it set in the jars.
I sometimes extract mine into large polythene food bags sitting in large tins. After it sets I can warm it with a bit of judicious microwaving, enough so that I can squidge it inside its bag to mix and soften, cut the corner off, and pipe it into jars.
Keep it quiet about honey harvests though - you'll make those people in the west jealous.
Honey! What's that then? Something we might not see this year in the wet and windy west. Just as well I went down the bee breeding road and not the honey crop road!
I'm not sure that those of us in the west will be jealous of the poor folk who have to cope with rape honey, Gavin ;)
For me, the main flow's just about to begin and wandering round the hives on a still summer's evening when the girls are ripening clover honey is just heavenly!
There's still a chance of honey as we tend to get late flows.All we need is an Indian Summer.
Thanks, Gavin. I'll take your advice. Glad to hear the situation isn't a complete loss.
Sorry, westcoasters! I had no idea the situation was like that there. Hope things pick up, and you get your Indian summer
I had real difficulty getting an extractor in time so my rape honey set in the comb. Can antone advise me about how to extract it if that's possible. I don't want to give 75ibs of it back to the bees. Mike
Well, this westcoaster is bottling the biggest haul of honey we've had in a long time ... and managed to breed bees too. They've even given us some lovely comb honey which was drawn more evenly than usual. I suppose it helps to have bees which fly in anything except torrential rain!
Mike
I cut out granualted rape honey and break it up into a plaster tank with a honey gate in the bottom. I then put the tank in my warming cabinet set at about 50 degs c and let the honey melt. A soon as it starts to appear in the bottom of the tank I draw it off so that it is not sitting in the heat for any length of time. As I draw it off more melts and sinks to the bottom.
I sometimes test the honey produced this way and the enzymes are still active so the short exposure to the heat has not done too much damage.
Once the flow from the tank slows down to a trickle I dig out all the softened wax and put it into a stainless bucket and put that into an oven at 90 Deg C. It takes all day to melt all the wax and by the evening I take it out to cool. By next morning I have a clean cake of wax on the top of the bucket and clean honey in the bottom. I lift out the cake by screwing in a cork screw. The honey recovered at this stage is saved for cooking because the enzymes will have been killed.
Rosie
Microwaving? Oh dear Gavin not good form at all, the massive energy really knackers the honey quality. - apparently, but then again : http://journals.uzpi.cz/publicFiles/44990.pdf cant find a reference to what microwaving does to enzymes though.Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin
12,5kg food quality buckets with lids, fit nicely one of these as a water bath for gentle & efficient warmth distribution:
http://www.neuheiten.edingershops.de...91108046_0.jpg
at 40°C for 24hrs and your honey is liquified. Or stir after clearing from harvesting till close to set (that lovely shimmering look) and 8hours @ 40°C and it is a pourable soft set and will not properly resolidify.
And the buildup of hydroxymethylfurfural which i believe is really bad for bees, so dont give them the cooked honey back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
From what wikipedia hast to say about hmf:
HMF is practically not present in fresh food, but it is naturally generated in sugar-containing food during heat-treatments like drying or cooking. Along with many other flavor- and colour-related substances, HMF is formed in the Maillard reaction as well as during caramelization. In these foods it is also slowly generated during storage. Acid conditions favour generation of HMF.[8]
HMF can be found in low amounts in honey, fruit-juices and UHT-milk. Here as well as in vinegars, jams, alcoholic products or biscuits HMF can be used as an indicator for excess heat-treatment. For instance, fresh honey only has low amounts of HMF—less than 15 mg/kg—depending on pH-value and temperature and age,[9] and the codex alimentarius standard requires that honey have less than 40 mg/kg HMf to guarantee that the honey has not undergone heating during processing, except for tropical honeys which must be below 80 mg/kg.
HMF can form in high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS), levels around 20 mg/kg HMF were found, increasing during storage or heating.[9] This is a problem for American beekeepers because they use HFCS as a source of sugar when there are not enough nectar sources to feed honeybees, and HMF is toxic to them. Adding bases such as soda ash or potash to neutralize the HFCS slows down the formation of HMF.[9]
Rosie,
How do you test for enzyme activity?
Calum
I agree with your HMF point. The quantity of HMF is inversely proportional to the enzyme activity and if you can get one property right with a healthy margin you can be fairly sure that the other is within spec. I have no way of measuring HMF anyway so I have to make do with the Glucose oxidase activity test.
Adam,
I twice posted quite a detailed explanation on the dying forum but I can explain briefly again here:
Dissolve honey sample in distilled room temp water at the ratio of 1 part honey to 4 parts water by weight.
Allow to stand for 1 hour at room temp.
Dip a peroxide test strip into the solution for a few seconds and then shake off surplus liquid.
Wait specified time (whatever it says on the test strip packaging).
Compare the colour of the wetted end with colour charts which came with the test strips.
Read off Hydrogen peroxide concentration in parts per million.
I believe that 2 parts per million is roughly equivalent to the legal minimum enzyme activity and maximum HMF allowances.
I like at least 8 parts per million to give me a decent margin
Good, cold processed honey will yield about 20 parts per million so 8 parts per million is easily obtained.
I hope that helps but if you want further details I will try to find the original document.
Rosie
Thanks Rosie, really appreciate the advice, Mike
Extract oilseed rape honey as soon as possible from the combs. They can be taken from the hive as soon as a shaken comb does not shed any drops of honey, even though it is not capped. To achieve this it is best to put the clearer boards on first thing in the morning, after the night when the bees have not added more and have had the whole night to ripen the contents.
Extract the frames and, if there is any chance of the honey sitting in the tank and solidifying, run it immediately into 7 or 10 pound plastic pails, seal them, and put them in the deep freeze. Leave for 3-6 months. When you remove the pails, you absolutely must allow them to return to room temp before removing the lid, otherwise condensation will form on the honey surface and spoil it. When you do open them, the honey will have the consistency of thick cream and the lustre of a pearl! Now bottle it. This method is foolproof, and works every time.
It's my turn to struggle with a few frames of OSR honey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
What is a safe temperature for heating OSR honey without losing too much nutrients or building up HMF - about 50C maximum?
I borrowed the association's extractor, but I was already too late for that. Then I broke up the combs and tried to strain it, but only some honey went through the strainer and the rest is still on top as broken comb. I've now borrowed a mini melter from the association and thought I'll start off by following Rosie's advice and setting the temperature at 50C.
Is it possible to liquefy OSR honey without using heat - for example, by using a propeller-type mixer to liquefy it?
Kitta
There is a chart around somewhere, possibly on Dave cushman's site that lists approximate times that you can heat honey at a given temperature before HMF buildup is likely to be a problem, when I'm on a device more suitable I'll try and dig it up.
Kitta
I doubt if you will ever melt the OSR honey crystals with anything other than heat. The safe heating temperature depends on the time it's exposed to the heat. 50 degs will affect enzymes in an hour or so but will have a tiny effect on HMF. However, the granulated comb seems to be a good insulator and it takes days for the heat to penetrate the honey bucket in sufficient quantities to cause all the crystals to melt. Hence if you regularly drain the melted honey from the heated tank it does not get exposed to high temperatures for very long although the whole process might take a couple of days.
Rosie
Thanks Nellie and Rosie. I'll start the heating process with caution and remove the liquid honey as you've suggested, Rosie. I had a quick look at the Cushman site, Nellie, and I found a page on HMF. From that page it seems to me he is saying what Rosie is saying - the faster I can remove the liquid honey from the heat, the better.
No argument from me on that point. :)
Two years later and I'm still struggling with oil seed rape honey. I realise I need to get tubs with taps on them and follow Rosie's heating advice (sorry - I haven't done that yet!). In the meantime I did put the tubs in the heating cabinet but perhaps not for long enough - I don't know. I get some honey strained through, and then it just sits there again in the strainer and won't budge.
So now I'm wondering what size strainers or filters are you using for oil seed rape honey? I'm using the stainless steel double filter from Thornes. The honey goes through the top one, but not the bottom one, and the top one can't be used on its own. I don't really want to put the tubs back in the heater (or not until I get one with a tap). Any suggestions?
Kitta
Kitta
You need to melt it more … the bottom filter is getting clogged with crystallised honey. I make sure mine is warmed right through and is clearish, not too cloudy, before you filter it. This might take 24+ hours at 45-50oC, mixing periodically to ensure it gets heated through evenly.
i use the Thornes filter you describe. Usually I spin it out of warmed supers - I just stack them on my warming cabinet set at about 40oC for a day to two, then filter it as it runs from the extractor. This year there was a lot of hawthorn in with it and it was easier to work with.
Got some hawthorn honey here too, with only a little rape in it I think. Also from other hives a decent rape crop which is only now turning white and solid. I think that it remained fairly warm at the end of the OSR flow so I had no problem with honey setting in the comb.
Thanks Fatshark. I probably removed the tubs too early from the cabinet warmer and set the temperature too low as well (over cautious). I'll definitely follow the stirring advice as well.
I managed to extract my combs ok, Gavin (apart from a few that collapsed because they had foundation without wire) and immediately started filtering - but still, the bottom filter soon got clogged.
I still have some OSR honey frames to remove from some hives next to the (now green) OSR field. I think I'll follow your example with those, Fatshark, and put the frames in the cabinet before extracting.
Thanks,
Kitta
If it's already crystallised in the frame you'll need to melt it out Kitta. Your OSR will be behind ours but your temperatures will be lower so it may well have set. I usually try and extract before the frame is completely capped … just as long as I can't shake nectar out.
Lots of people here use an Apimelter … I was talking to some friends this evening who tell me one of the local commercial guys charges a fiver per honey extracted. You get back the weight of honey and wax. But where's the fun in that. What would you do with all that time saved from not having to clean up?
I managed to extract the first batch of frames ok, Fatshark - the problems started with the filtering. I still have to find out about the next lot. I might remove them today.
If I manage to extract the frames easily enough, I now wonder whether I should bother with immediate filtering as I'm not ready to bottle them. Perhaps I should just extract the honey and then store it in tubs unfiltered, let the honey set hard, and only then heat and filter?
Or, if I heat, filter, and churn the honey now and store it in tubs, will the honey then set as soft set (as opposed to the rock hard stuff) so that I can jar it later without reheating? (Sorry if I'm talking gibberish.)
Kitta
The fact that it blocked your filter on extraction suggests it was semi-crystallised in the frames. That being the case you'd probably be best to extract it, let it set, melt and filter. You certainly don't have to filter then.
I filter on extraction (assuming I can), allow it to set in buckets - and store it like this - then melt, seed with a suitable soft set and allow to re-set. It doesn't always work properly! I've had stuff that's too sloppy, stuff that's too hard etc. However, you do need to melt it completely and the re-setting after seeding needs to be at a temperature below 14 C. Difficult to achieve at this time of year (though perhaps not on the top of a windswept hill in Aberdeenshire!).
Thank you, Fatshark. I want to write Module 2 (Honey bee products and forage) in November - so I'd better get my head round honey extraction and start studying! Thank you for your help.
Kitta
Not sure that you need to melt completely, or seed it. I just soften it enough to be able to mix it (it is still whitish) then pour into jars. It stays like that and doesn't set hard again. I was intrigued by Apiarist's post earlier in the thread - extract, freeze, store, pour. Sound good to me and ought to maintain the flavours and minimise HMF more than any other variant. Straining is optional unless it is for sale or show.
Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk
Yes, I liked Apiarist's instructions too - but my fridge freezer won't cope with that.
I inadvertantly let my bees completely cap 4 complete supers of rape this year. To my amazement I found the honey to be still liquid - certainly enough to extract and not solid as I expected. After extraction I put it in buckets in my warming cabinet with the temperature set at 40 degrees. I left it in the cabinet for 2 days and then put it thro' the coarse and fine filters fitted to my settling tank with a 400 mesh filter cloth backing the fine filter. the whole lot rapidly filtered as it was still quite warm from the heating cabinet. I ran it into clean buckets to store and with one lot into a bottling bucket fitted with a tap. The bottled honey set but was a buttery creamy colour instead of the usual stark white you get with normal rape. I guess they must have been working the hawthorn plus some other things. The flavour is quite distinct - certainly different from previous years rape honey.
I've only just got round to melting out the crystallised frames. I cut the combs out of the frames and put them in a tub with a tap so that I can draw off the liquid honey as Rosie had suggested. It was still a struggle and I had to keep clearing the bottom filter that got clogged up really quickly. I don't know whether it was getting clogged with honey crystals or bits of wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatshark
My question now is, is it safe to give the honey/wax that remained behind in the filters to the bees? It's been in the warming cabinet at about 40 degrees Celsius. Or should I just put the lot in the low oven and then use the honey for mead or something? (I've never made mead.)
Kitta
Hi kitta is your giving it back yo the same hive that should be OK
I think chalk brood sometimes gets spread by feeding cappings back
Thanks, DR. No, all the cappings are mixed. It did not occur to me to worry about chalk brood - but I don't think any of my colonies suffer particularly from chalk brood to be a problem ...
What I'm uncertain about is the heat I've used in the warming cabinet - will the honey that's been subjected to heat of about 40 degree Celsius for a day or two be harmful to the bees?
Kitta
Should be fine I think to feed back but the mead sounds good to me :)
Thanks again, DR. I'll give the bees some, and make mead with the rest. Kitta