organic varroa control

Hi
Relatively new to beekeeping, did my beginners course last year and have one colony.
I need a little advise, been offered a site on a organic farm and need to know is oxalic acid (trickled between frames in winter) classed as organic and what other organic control can i use apart from sugar dusting.Also the chap said that another beekeeper declined to keep bees on another site they have because of the large polytunnels they use and bees getting trapped in them and dying, does any one see that many bees dying and affecting the hive.
Many thanks
Keith

Hi Keith

According to these standards:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/gro...f/standard.pdf

... oxalic, formic and lactic acids and thymol (aka 2-isopropyl-5-methylphenol!!) are all OK ....

6.3. The use of veterinary medicinal products in beekeeping which complies with these
standards shall respect the following principles:

(a) they can be used in so far as the corresponding use is authorised in the
Member State in accordance with the relevant Community provisions or
national provisions in conformity with Community law;
(b) phytotherapeutic and homeopathic products shall be used in preference to
allopathic products chemically synthesised, provided that their therapeutic
effect is effective for the condition for which the treatment is intended;
(c) if the use of the abovementioned products should prove or is unlikely to be
effective to eradicate a disease or infestation which risks destroying colonies,
allopathic chemically synthesised medicinal products may be used under the
responsibility of a veterinarian, or other persons authorised by the Member
State, without prejudice to the principles laid down in paragraphs (a) and (b)
above;
(d) the use of allopathic chemically synthesised medicinal products for preventive
treatments is prohibited;
(e) without prejudice to the principle in (a) above formic acid, lactic acid, acetic
acid and oxalic acid and the following substances: menthol, thymol, eucalyptol
or camphor can be used in cases of infestation with Varroa jacobsoni.

However when I last saw them the Soil Association standards were significantly tougher (I seem to have lost that file). Note that this is just about the treatments, to produce organic honey you need to have a 3 km radius of essentially organic land around your apiary (much further for the Soil Association).

best wishes

Gavin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith

declined to keep bees on another site they have because of the large polytunnels they use and bees getting trapped in them and dying ...

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Honeybees can't cope with polytunnels whereas bumble bees do seem to be able to work it out. I know of an apiary sited right behind a large polytunnel and they don't seem to go in, though it it closed at the end with the bee hives. I doubt that you would have much of a problem unless their flight path took them into a tunnel.

Hi Gavin
Thanks for the reply,good to see I can use the oxalic will do some reading on thymol never heard of that one before.

Quote:

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to produce organic honey you need to have a 3 km radius of essentially organic land around your apiary

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Yes did realize that, doudt if anyone in the uk could sell as organic honey or very few at least.

Quote:

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Honeybees can't cope with polytunnels whereas bumble bees do seem to be able to work it out. I know of an apiary sited right behind a large polytunnel and they don't seem to go in, though it it closed at the end with the bee hives. I doubt that you would have much of a problem unless their flight path took them into a tunnel

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Will go ahead and place the bees on the site and monitor the situation for the year but like you I don't think there will be a problem.
Thanks
Keith

Hi Keith

If you follow this link http://www.soilassociation.org/Certi...3/Default.aspx you get to Full set of standards for producers, scroll forward to chapter 15 beekeeping, where it says:

When you are siting your apiaries you must:

• place the hives on areas of land certified as organic
• ensure your bees have enough natural nectar, honeydew and pollen
sources, and access to water
• make sure nectar and pollen sources, within four miles of your apiary,
consist essentially of:
i. organic crops, and/or
ii. uncultivated areas with natural vegetation, and
iii. crops that have only been managed with low environmental
impact methods (such as those grown under Regulation (EEC)
No. 2078/92) and which cannot significantly affect the organic
description of beekeeping, and
• keep them far enough from potential sources of contamination, such as
urban centres, motorways, industrial areas, waste dumps and waste
incinerators.
15.4.3 | Revised
With our approval, you may site your apiaries on land that:
• only has naturally occurring vegetation, and
• has not been treated with any substances we do not allow.
15.4.4
You must provide us with:
• evidence that your colonies only have access to land that meets these
conditions, and
• a map of a suitable scale that shows the location of your hives and the
foraging area of your bees.


These rules apply if you want to sell honey with an organic label certified by the Soil Association.
Not as strict as they used to be, but still not easy to achieve.

Best of luck, Doris

Hi Doris
No real intentions of selling the honey as organic just need to make sure that my varroa control is organic so the farmer does not break any organic association rules.
Keith

Reading Doris' links, if the farm is Soil Association certified then you might have to ask their permission to bring in non-organic stock. There are also restrictions on the feeding of bees and other things. It would be wise to check out whether such things might affect the certification first.

Hi
Will ask on Monday what association he is with and will check out with them first.Hopefully Doris,s list is just if I want to sell honey as being organic ( I don't) and not just for
keeping a few hives on the land.

Good luck with that Keith. You asked about thymol: some beekeepers use it as the crystals you can buy, some make up various mixes with oils, but the recommended treatment is in the gel form as Apiguard which you can buy from the usual beekeeping outlets. It is a Varroa control which is suitable for the warmer months, but not while supers are on.

So do you think apiguard is considered an organic control or is there other thing in it that would exclude it from being classed as organic. Apiguard treatment in August -Sept along with oxalic in Dec, seems there may not be any problems in varroa control then.

I suspect that Apiguard is OK as the standards talk of using approved methods, but I really don't know. Yes, it looks like you will have no problems with Varroa control. Formic acid (Mite-Away) and sacrificial drone brood may be other options.

G.

I looked into keeping bees on an organic farm when I started out and I don't recall that any of the varroa treatments applied to the hive had any effect on the farm's status itself but there were some pretty strict (and quite random in parts) hoops to jump through to get the honey itself certified. I was looking mainly to see if there was anything in particular that I needed to do as a beekeeper so as not to impact the farm's status and as far as I could see there shouldn't be a problem (usual caveat about internet advice applied ;)) and the farmer didn't see any problem either.

There is a new thymol based treatment out that claims to be certified organic but I've not looked into it much yet, nor have any idea how good it is, nor, now it's relevant actually remember what it's called.