Blog Comments

Hi Neil. Don't kill yourself. Beekeeping does your head in sometimes. I was pretty cheesed off losing a load of nucs over winter.
I still have 14 queens and fortunately none has turned drone layer. 5 of them are green spotters, entering their 3rd season and two of them are heading strong colonies already with loads of brood. I had 3 or 4 newly mated queens turn drone layer within a month of starting to lay last summer but that is par for the course - poor mating.

I think you should get away with running in a pulled virgin or a cell on the point of hatching. Might have been better to wait 3 or 4 hours after removing the queen. If you find cells on that frame you have put in, they have probably dispatched her.

You need to lie down on a psychiatrist's couch in a darkened room and relate your queen problems to Sigmund Patterson, the patron saint of early supersedure and disappearing queens.

Hi Nellie.
Yep, see what you mean, it would mean the survey was pure heresay or 3rd party gossip, not that I would indulge in any of that!

Jon,

Those are helpful figures. Don't take this the wrong way, but I've been reluctant to take third party accounts into the stats. I want to put them in on the basis that I think it will make the numbers look "better" but equally it highlights the issue with conducting a survey on the basis of publicly disclosed figures.

Nemphlar, thank you, both for raw numbers and a detailed context behind them. Having put this up on several different forums I've been incredibly appreciative with the open-ness and interest that people have treated what I tried to do. I don't have anything to offer in way of suggestion over what Jon's already suggested I'm afraid.

OK thanks Jon, I'll send a sample off

I don't think you get the fouling with N Ceranae, just the dwindling.

I always assumed nosema would show up with fouled frames, is this not the case, apart from some mould on the outside frames they are spotless

That sounds like what I got with my nucs this winter and I strongly suspect nosema rather than varroa. I have nor sent my samples for testing yet but I am sure most will come back positive.
Some people have suggested that the Oxalic acid trickle can be the coup de grace for bees already suffering from nosema.
I lost a couple of nucs within a fortnight of the oxalic trickle in a cold spell.
Varroa (and pesticides) get all the press but Nosema is a big problem as well.

Smiths on OMF's 3 years of treating with sublimated OA and thought they were doing OK (5 hives), ended year with 8 new queens and 1 second year. They were fed syrup till they were full and then treated with OA sublimated in October. The second year Q had a very high count 2200bugs, but had maintained full brood and 3 1/2 supers in the year, the others were counts in the low hundreds .
They all were laying well in nice patterns.
Late December with a slight increase in the temperature I treated again though for the first time used the OA trickle method, this gave low double figure counts across the hives and as the weather had been so bad I thought there should be no brood.
Condition so far is 4 total losses 2 with2 frames of bees and tiny patch of eggs/brood, 1 with 3 frames of bees. 1 of which I stole and gave to a queen with 20 bees and a dozen eggs.
The 2nd year queen may be the only colony that remains viable.
Is it coincidence that this is the first time I used trickle method.
Is it likely the remoteness of my queen breeding area has given me poor queens, the combs are clean and there is no obvious sign of disease, no starvation

Hi Nellie.
A guy in my bka lost 27/27. (in nationals)
He told me last September he had no varroa and was not going to treat.
He thought it was nosema ceranae but when he brought a sample of dead bees for checking it was riddled with mites and negative for nosema.
He has a single colony left, one in his garden. The others were at out apiaries.
I know another guy had 100% losses but not sure of his exact colony numbers, around 10 or 12.

My dad lost 2 nucs but still has 12 and 2 nucs.

I hardly saw mites last summer either but had one colony drop nearly 1000 after Apiguard.
Another colony dropped a further 100 in December after the Oxalic treatment.

I think varroa and associated virus as well as nosema are the biggest problems for bee health.

I don't think that numbers in any detail will be forthcoming, I can only pinpoint one top bar hive in the total figures otherwise there just doesn't seem to be any discussion on winter losses at all.

The initial figures were definitely skewed by the Nuc Numbers, hence me splitting them out, but as the figures have increased it's not having quite the dramatic effect that it did before.

>Maybe bees in tbhs don't die so no-one need ask but I did find it curious.

I think you will find that is the elephant in the room. Not so much the fault of the box, as the non varroa treatment baggage which seems to go with it.
The typical routine is a year of preaching followed by bragging in April if the bees survived a winter and then silence after the second winter. I like to follow the posts or blogs of the non treaters and they invariably end the same way. Wipeout within 3 years, usually two. Some people in the US seem to be getting by without treatment, although there is russian genetics in a lot of these bees. The Primorsky bees have had to deal with varroa for something like 150 years.
It's a lot easier to rant about pesticides and the bbka than address why your bees died.
It is a bitter irony that the usual suspects call the bbka the british beekillers association.
It would be great to have the stats on treaters vs non treaters but I don't think you have a mission about getting honest data.
My nuc losses this winter must be skewing your stats but even with that, I have more colonies than this time last year and I sold some as well.
last year I didn't lose any and I was reluctant to post that, as it looks like crowing when others are reporting losses.
I must be happier to identify with the losers.

Of course, I wouldn't use this for anything other than general interest. While I'm now well over 350 colonies, that's hardly representative of the 140k+ registered colonies supposedly in the UK, let alone the others.

I excluded colonies that have gone queenless and where two colonies have been combine from being counted. A loss on these figures is purely where someone's said "I cracked the lid and the bees were dead".

Take the point about timing, I've not looked at all mine yet either, but felt the numbers so far were worth looking at.

I do think these numbers, even taking all that into account, are conservative, I split Nucs and full colonies initially because the nuc losses were obviously affecting the overall picture but I think especially where people only have 1-2 colonies there's a natural reluctance to publicly admit that you lost both hives.

The only other noticeable trait I've come across is the apparent lack of interest in the "natural" communities. Whether as a community or individual Beekeepers. Everywhere else has not only a winter losses thread but multiple "my bees are dead what went wrong? Posts from individuals. Maybe bees in tbhs don't die so no-one need ask but I did find it curious.

Seems like a fairly normal and unremarkable rate of colony loss (although the method of data collection will affect the outcome of course). For last year's COLOSS survey we set the date to count as 1 May as there can still be losses in April, particularly as the queenless colonies fail or get identified by the beekeeper. I haven't yet lifted any frames so I can't be sure yet.

Plenty of willow, but that's easy to spot both in gardens and on the bees. I normally see the dandelions on the paths in the allotment, I might just be blind this year but they're not out there. Otherwise my walk to work is concrete jungle so I don't get to see much anymore.

Our willows are resplendent. Do you have any nearby? Chris Slade has just posted on Bee-L about the early flush of dandelions in Dorset.

Marked difference between the two colonies. The Double national had 4 frames of brood (discounting the odd frame with a bit of brood), the 14x12 had nearly 6 frames of brood. I tend to think in sides of brood rather than frames, something I picked up from the bee inspector notes. The 14x12 covers 8 frames the National perhaps 6-7, a bit tricky to say for sure when I'd just condensed it down to a single brood box.

I'm pretty sure that the 14x12 has crossed with the NZ italians next door, but the other 14x12, on a differnt site, which hasn't is also much stronger than the national, but I think that's as much to it being on double brood with a few frames of foundation as much as anything.

Both are raising drones and both seem to have plenty of stores.

I've not noticed dandelions around here. Not to say they aren't out, I just honestly haven't seen any. I have seen a few cherry trees out in flower and our garden which is great for bees is about a week away from starting to come into flower.

[edit] I guess a quick addition to say that by "stronger" I dont necessarily mean "better". The amount of fondant that the 14x12 took in comparison to the National was interesting and is part of why I believe that they forage using little mopeds and shout "ciao!" a lot

There were a few of the early dandies open here too on Friday in a favoured S-facing spot near the coast. In Bristol there would be several possibilities. I have peeked at the tops of mine but I haven't yet lifted any frames. I might try to do so on Tuesday morning as I need something to show a school class near Dundee.

Hi neil. I have noticed quite a few dandelions in flower. Maybe nectar coming in from there. How many frames with brood had you altogether in each colony? My frugal native types are mostly on 3 frames with brood, 6 frames covered with bees at the moment and stores and pollen are good.

Wednesday and Thursday last week we had about 15c so I got the last of my checking done. I have seen all my queens bar one which I didn't look for after seeing a nice brood pattern on a frame and none of them has turned drone layer.

Winter Blues as well here in Cape Breton. I assemblied all my woodenware in the early winter , should have spaced it out. I try to ski or snowshoe by the girl twice a week to check in. All seems well so far. Not sure what half of you people are drinking to schrug off the winter but count me in. I'll have a wee dram of shine for you all. Winter well........

I like to go for the peaty ones like Jura- something very soothing & warming about them (especially as the husband isn't too keen so more for me) Bowmore Darkest & Legend are worth a try too. Lots out there that need to be sampled