Blog Comments

  1. Jon's Avatar
    Hi Ron. There is now work started up in Ireland re. varroa tolerance at both Limerick University and Nuig Galway.
    The Native Irish Honeybee society is part funding and promoting the work.
    We have some areas with pretty much pure Amm here although we live with the threat from imports.

    http://nihbs.org/eventsworkshops/ire...oring-project/
  2. Ron's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    Hi Ron. Just checked the blog and found your posts. I read on another forum that there was a problem with hundreds of NZ carnica colonies moved quite near to you on a Coop farm site.
    Did that have any effect on your stock and if so are your bees now hybrids rather than Amm as you started out with?
    There are a couple of varroa tolerance projects started up in Ireland using Amm stock.
    Hi Jon, That was a worry but I don't think it ever got off the ground. It was only 8 miles from my apiary as a crow flies, so we expected to have swarms coming our way. It hasn't happened. I was told by the man who was doing it for the co-op, a Scottish bee farmer, that only the DARK queens were from NZ and the filtered bees, also dark, were from the mountains in N. Italy.
    Back in the 80's I took up instrumental insemination to breed Amm bees but had to stop I.I. about 1994 when the workers were rejecting my queens. I stopped I.I. (for several years) and my hives reverted as we don't have Amm down here. The cause was chemicals being used to control varroa causing semen viability loss. No chemicals been used since - 20 years this year. My bees survive and are now healthy mongrels - but I love 'em.
    They uncap cells and remove larvae. I seldom see DWV as the bees don't get the virus.
    On Wednesday the varroa trays were cleaned and put back under the hives. They were taken out on Saturday and mites collected. There were signs that uncapping is already taking place and every colony has survived so far.
    This will be a weekly routine from now till April to establish which colonies will be selected for breeding this season.
  3. Jon's Avatar
    Hi Ron. Just checked the blog and found your posts. I read on another forum that there was a problem with hundreds of NZ carnica colonies moved quite near to you on a Coop farm site.
    Did that have any effect on your stock and if so are your bees now hybrids rather than Amm as you started out with?
    There are a couple of varroa tolerance projects started up in Ireland using Amm stock.
  4. prakel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry
    Like Prakel I'd not be bothered to lose some honey production in exchange for life without varroicides. But I'm guessing honey production could be selected for from within a pool of VSH bees. Or are they in some way exclusive of each other?
    I had a conversation with a prominent European breeder about this last year. His opinion was that yes, it certainly is possible to breed for honey production once the resistant traits are locked in....in principle, but his immediate issue is where to get new, tested, breeding material from to avoid inbreeding. As it is he claims to have absorbed a considerable financial loss over a fifteen year period while developing the line which he currently has. The actual figures were eye-watering.

    On the other hand Ron's project appears to be an interesting example of what can be achieved over a period of years from an initially small breeding population.
    Updated 02-02-2015 at 09:16 AM by prakel
  5. Ron's Avatar
    Looked up the American I just mentioned. This is he in his words:
    Rob Currie, an entomologist with the University of Manitoba, notes genetic advantages come with a trade-off. “They’re putting energy into grooming,” he explains, which can lead to a drop in honey production, making the insects less effective pollinators. “If it can’t produce honey it doesn’t have much usefulness.”

    There is always one, isn't there. He would sooner lose his bees perhaps? The following appeared in the Gaurdian (these bees did not produce honey either).

    On average, 33.8 colonies in every 100 perished over the long winter of 2012-13 compared with 16.2% the previous winter. In the south-west of England, more than half of all colonies were wiped out and in the northern part of the country 46.4% didn't survive.
    In Scotland and Wales, honeybees fared no better. The Scottish beekeepers association, which has yet to complete its annual survey, predicts losses of up to 50%. And bee farmers in Wales have reported 38% losses.

    Alison Benjamin, The Gaurdian, Thursday 13 June 2013 00.01 BST
  6. Ron's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by drumgerry
    Like Prakel I'd not be bothered to lose some honey production in exchange for life without varroicides. But I'm guessing honey production could be selected for from within a pool of VSH bees. Or are they in some way exclusive of each other?
    I am sure it could but as I said; honey production has not been one of my priorities so have not recorded honey yields.
    Someone in USA did say "while bees are busy grooming they are not out collecting or inside processing". He might have a point but when his colony has wingless bees with stunted bodies, staying home eating and dying early without supporting the colony, I have my doubts? I know the type of bee I prefer.
    Ron
  7. drumgerry's Avatar
    Like Prakel I'd not be bothered to lose some honey production in exchange for life without varroicides. But I'm guessing honey production could be selected for from within a pool of VSH bees. Or are they in some way exclusive of each other?
  8. prakel's Avatar
    Thanks, that's an interesting reply. I personally have no difficulty with the idea of a trade off of some kind to allow the maintenance of of a higher level of varroa tolerance (by whichever means) in fact I'd be more surprised if it wasn't so.

    Hope to hear much more from you.
  9. Ron's Avatar
    I must confess that honey yield has never been top of my selection list when determining which queens are best to breed from.
    However, one quite famous man who does keep bees in Devon had a 6-frame nuke off me in May last year and claims he had more honey from those bees than ever before off his own.
    Not many of my queens have "left the district" as we have tried to develop a local foot-print of varroa tolerant bees.
    That said I still have trouble convincing other beeks to stop the use of chemicals even when they have my bees. But all seem satisfied with the honey they get.
    I do have several beeks locally who have not used chemicals for years but don't have their honey figures.
    As I am not in the business of selling bulk honey I have the philosophy that if the honey I get is not enough then have another hive. I do have loads awaiting final processing and bottling.
    Perhaps I will survey the few who have my queens outside my area and ask the question.
    I suppose in the end it must be a balance of how difficult it is to look after bees which need chemicals to survive and still suffer serious losses, against those that always survive, need only routine inspections for health and swarming and may produce a pund or two less honey.
  10. prakel's Avatar
    Hi Ron, nice to see your post, funnily enough I've recently been scouring your website. Some great stuff here.

    I have a couple of questions (based on what other respected breeders of mite tolerant/resistant bees have told me).

    Have you seen any crop reduction compared to treated colonies being kept in the local area? Others have suggested that they've seen a cost (in honey) in payment for mite tolerance. But of course that's a balance which they're happy to accept.

    Also, can you share any positive feedback as to how your queens have performed when sent outside of your immediate area?

    We often read stories of how such queens don't succeed when moved to other areas. Personally I struggle to see how that can be anything other than management related, perhaps in the sense of failure to actively select further generations until the trait has been bred into the background population so it would be heartening to hear some positive feedback for a change.
  11. Ron's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete L
    >I could go on, and on but will save some for next time

    Good to see you writing on here, Ron, interesting, i look forward to next time.
    I will never go back to chemical use and in fact I would be frightened to do so in case my bees revert with no mites to groom.
  12. Ron's Avatar
    The first thing I advise to anyone considering going treatment free is to identify your most hygienic colony, if you have one. You need to get yourself a powerful lens, min 5x. Not the watchmakers type which clip round the eye and need to be very close to the object. The ones we use are known as "Visible Dust Sensor Loupe" 7x
    They can usually be found on eBay but do cost around £70. They have 6 LED lights. Normally used to aid the cleaning of the sensor of Dig, SLR cameras. (maybe your club could buy one for loan to members)
    With such a lens held about 2" above the varroa tray removed from the hive within 3 days if insertion, head being about 10" above. Scan the tray methodically.
    Using a very fine soft artist brush to gently collect fallen mites and gently ease them from the brush into a small container. I use the 1oz honey pots sold by Thornes. Care must be taken to prevent you causing damage. If in doubt discard that sample. With this lens adult mites are very obvious. You may even observe they have carapace damage or legs missing. Still scanning the tray look for antennae which are watery white. These will have been torn from bee larvae after cell uncapping by workers and the removal of a pupa. This is a sure sign of serious hygienic behaviour. The workers will have smelt the protein odour of the wound created, and kept open during pupal moults, by the adult mite for her babies to feed from. Doubtful the workers have sensed varroa activity but rather that the smell could be a source of disease and needs removing for the sake of the colony's health.
    When such a pupa is removed and antennae found you can be sure there will be tiny baby mites to be found. They are very difficult to find, even with a 7x but easier once the eye becomes "trained". This checking can start as soon as there is an amount oh near emerging capped brood, early March in the south. Subsequent examination under a reasonable dissecting microscope will determine to what extent the mites are damaged.
    Hive, tray and pot must be numbered for records to be kept. I count babies as damaged as the cell has been attacked, the babies removed and they will never reach breeding age. I look for dented or torn carapace and legs missing or part missing. they are listed as such. By adding the damaged together and comparing with the undamaged you have a percentage figure with which to compare other hives. I have figures from July to Nov. 2014 where fifteen hives were between 60 & 70%, eight between 70 & 80%, one 80.5 and one 88% damaged.
    Doubt you will find figures that high but breed from your best then sometime you must be bold and take the decision to no longer use chemicals, or ever revert back to chemicals, on the best grooming colony. It may have so many varroa that you will be tempted to treat but you must resist and give the bees their chance. Continue checking that hive and watch for increase in damage figures. I am now at the stage where my bees are doing such an excellent job that I no longer see deformed wings or stunted abdomen. Honey production is good and i do not lose bees to varroa.
  13. Pete L's Avatar
    >I could go on, and on but will save some for next time

    Good to see you writing on here, Ron, interesting, i look forward to next time.
  14. mbc's Avatar
    Yes, fascinating stuff, thank you Ron.
    Once you left chemical treatments behind, did you then return to using II ?
  15. gavin's Avatar
    Thanks for persisting, Ron. We're delighted to have you here.
  16. drumgerry's Avatar
    Fascinating stuff Ron and fantastic to have you on the forum. How would you suggest those of us with fewer colonies (personally speaking around 15 at the moment) might proceed down the same lines? Do you make queens available to others with the VSH trait? I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I'd love to be able to go treatment free.