Must-read book: 'A Spring Without Bees'

[Stromnessbees]

'A Spring Without Bees, How Colony Collapse Disorder Has Endangered Our Food Supply' by Michael Schacker, available from places like Amazon for under £5.

This book is well written and easy to understand, it explains, how not only our bees but also our food supply have been threatened since the introduction of neonicotinoid pesticides.

I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spring-without-Bees-Michael-Schacker/dp/1599214326/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337265924&sr=1-1

That's fine Doris, recommend it if you like, but I moved the thread to the area more appropriate for discussions on agrochemicals since you imply that is what this book is about. G.

[Stromnessbees]

That's fine Doris, recommend it if you like, but I moved the thread to the area more appropriate for discussions on agrochemicals since you imply that is what this book is about. G.

Yes, I know, you want it at the bottom of the forum where most readers won't find it.

That's despite this book's excellent credentials:


Michael Schacker was honored with the “Cultural Achievement Award 2010″ from The Artists’ and Humans’ Project for his bookhttp://planbeecentral.wordpress.com/

[gavin]

No, it isn't that I or anyone else don't want people to find it. It is that this is a topic that can lead to heated and repetitive debate which puts some people off using the forum. This area was set up for these discussions, this is where it belongs, and everyone can see that there was a new post in this area. Those who don't like the hostile atmosphere generated by these posts can get on and happily use the rest of the forum in peace.

Your posts of late have all been similar - banging a pesticide drum, challenging people, declaring that the folk trying to keep this place on an even keel have surruptitious motives of one kind or another. Little piece of advice: the more you do this, the more people will reject what you say. Go back and check out Calum's diagram on how, and how not, to conduct a discussion.

[chris]

I recently bought a copy of the above book and read it cover to cover in one sitting - it is a stunning tour de force. It covers the French bee collapse from 1994-2003 in great detail and includes synopses of all the major science papers which influenced the French to ban imidacloprid in 2000.

This is the introduction by Borderbeeman in his reccommendation of the book on the biobees forum, which, I believe inspired your post here Doris. If I am correct, you have not read the book.
I suggest that before reccommending it yourself, on this forum,, you also read "Abeilles, l’imposture écologique" by Gil Rivière-Wekstein which also discusses the scientific papers, as well as the political manoevering that led to the ban, but comes to a totally different conclusion.

[Neils]

Yes, I know, you want it at the bottom of the forum where most readers won't find it.


hint, New posts (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/search.php?do=getnew&contenttype=vBForum_Post). I use it a lot, it does exactly what it says on the tin and shows you every thread on the forums that have had new posts, no matter how hard we try to hide them, since your last visit. It is right up there under the "home" button on the forum layout.

[Stromnessbees]

If I am correct, you have not read the book.


You obviously don't know me and are making the wrong assumptions. My book arrived 2 days ago and I have read those sections which interested me most, the rest I skimmed over and it's very much along the other information I found out, but which is being suppressed on this forum.

I will read the French document too, when I have the time to do it, and assess it for its value.

[Bumble]

hint, New posts (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/search.php?do=getnew&contenttype=vBForum_Post). I use it a lot, it does exactly what it says on the tin and shows you every thread on the forums that have had new posts, no matter how hard we try to hide them, since your last visit.
I use it all the time, even when I'm not loggedin.

[Stromnessbees]

To those who haven't got this book yet I recommend watching this brief introduction by the author, Michael Schacker:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ymnGo3uGdSM

[Calum]

So watched the video twice. The bee deaths in France were caused by poorly coated seed that was pneumatically sown. If he really did research the deaths he knows that. Um, so where is the news (Germany had the same problem, and banned the badly coated seed)?
Varroa, over working bees in the usa, the chemical cocktails US bees are subjected to, no mention of any of that.
CCD is a US problem.
Also world hunger would not break out if the bees all died - fruit would get expensive though, + would create plenty of jobs.
Most staples such as wheat don't rely on bees, not even a wee bit.
So for a guy that has done some research a fairly biased plug there. Or does he go into other contributers to CCD in the book?
Bee friendly gardens all for it.

[prakel]

Also world hunger would not break out if the bees all died - fruit would get expensive though, + would create plenty of jobs.

More low paid jobs for the masses so that the wealthy can eat fruit?

[gavin]

..... and it's very much along the other information I found out, but which is being suppressed on this forum.


Scurrilous, and bonkers. This is one of the best places for 'information'. It is the biased, unsubstantiated clap-trap that gets a rough ride here. It isn't suppressed, it is challenged.

Doris' book is propaganda of course. Chris' book is a fascinating read, but a slow read for someone with my level of French.

For those interested, there is a really careful review of French bee losses here in a report authored by some of the big names in the field. It is in both French and English and cuts through all the hype around, such as is found in Doris' book. There is the advantage that is it free and available on a computer near you.

http://www.afssa.fr/Documents/SANT-Ra-MortaliteAbeillesEN.pdf

G.

[Trog]

When the pesticide(s) in question was banned in France, what did they use on the sunflowers and corn instead? Does anyone here know, and has there been any research into what the replacement pesticides do to bees and other pollinators?

[chris]

No Trog, I don't know, but I have contacted Gil Rivière-Wekstein and will let you know as soon as he replies. Incidentally, the bee losses in the winter following the ban were equivalent to those before the ban.

[chris]

When the pesticide(s) in question was banned in France, what did they use on the sunflowers and corn instead?

So, here is my translation of the information I received. If, in my ignorance of chemistry, I've invented some new pesticides, then I'm sure somebody more knowledgable will correct it.

For sunflowers, there are no seed treatment insecticides since the suspensions. Therefore, the farmers have managed with carbamates while there were still some available. They have now moved on to pyrethroids in the sowing furrows (as with maize), and at the moment they only have cypermethrin in micro granule form (Belem) to fight against click beetle. So a lot of problems ahead….even more so as the other action of the seed treatments was against the flying pests (aphids).Nowadays, leaf application of principally pyrethroid products (of which we know their limits in terms of resistance development) have taken over. The following table is a recapitulative of the authorized products.

Products permitted for leaf spraying against aphids Latest update : march 2012

Synthetic pyrethroids
MAVRIK FLO, TALITA product dosage0.3 l/ha toxicity: SC Active substances:tau-fluvalinate Dosage
of active ingredients used80 g/ha
Associated pyrethroids
KARATE K, OPEN, OKAPI liquide Product dosage:1.5 l/ha toxicity:Xn Active substances:lambda-cyhalothrin + pirimicarb
dosage of active ingredients used 7,5 + 150 g/ha
Carbamates
PIRIMOR G Product dosage: 0.5 kg/ha toxicity:T Active substances: pirimicarb
dosage of active ingredients used: 250 g/ha

Toxicity of the commercial patent : SC = not classed ; Xn = noxious ; T = toxic

For maize ,since 2008, there have been annual approvals for a seed treated insecticide: Cruiser made by Syngenta. It should be noted that the product Belem (cypermethrin) has been authorized, and a dispensation accorded for clothianidin in micro granule form for sweetcorn last year for Cruiser was not available.

[Jon]

lambda-cyhalothrin is highly toxic to honey bees, especially when tank mixed with fungicide.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35463#Ecotoxicity

pirimicarb is moderately toxic to honey bees

http://www.pesticide.org/get-the-facts/pesticide-factsheets/factsheets/cypermethrin

cypermethrin is toxic to honey bees.
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC33366#Ecotoxicity

This stuff is also toxic to fish.

Well done all you anti neonicotinoid campaigners for getting this dangerous crap used in larger quantities. You know what they say, be careful what you wish for.
They don't replace banned neonicotinoids with unicorn manure, just older and more dangerous pesticides, the carbamates and pyrethroids.

[prakel]

Stumbled on this quote in an article by Ross Conrad on the use of EO's in Bee Culture

http://beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=697


May not be the best place to post it but there are already too many threads (to choose from) either about pesticides OR hijacked by the anti-p gang.


Richard Adee the owner of Adee Honey Farms in South Dakota is the largest beekeeper in America. Richard consistently runs 80,000 or more colonies between South Dakota, California, Washington, Texas and Mississippi. When it comes to Honey-B-Healthy, Richard says 'we wouldn’t operate without it.'

Adee Honey Farms suffered a 40% loss of bees in 2008 and testing indicated that numerous viruses were the primary cause. As Richard tells it, he sent the best of what was left of his bees to the almond orchards in California and shipped the rest to Texas. Then he bought a bunch of new bees in an effort to expand and improve the gene pool in his bees and he bred from the best and most resistant of his remaining stock. In the Summer of 2008 his bees were looking pretty good but were not making much honey. He drenched the bees with Honey-B-Honey and the bees seemed to take off, ending the year by producing a nice honey crop. Testing and sampling following the drenching indicated much lower virus levels as well as lower Varroa levels. Since then Richard reports that he has had no major health issues with his bees during the past year and a half and he now uses H-B-H regularly in his bee feed and is drenching them once each summer as preventive maintenance. Like his colleagues, he appreciates the fact that H-B-H is a food related natural product and that he does not have to rely on toxic chemistry and drugs to maintain his industrial size operation.


I'm not making any comment on H-B-H or any similar treatment, just pointing out what Adee (and others who lost badly to CCD) has to say about the primary reason for his colonies collapsing.

[Stromnessbees]

Scurrilous, and bonkers. This is one of the best places for 'information'. It is the biased, unsubstantiated clap-trap that gets a rough ride here. It isn't suppressed, it is challenged.

Doris' book is propaganda of course.

I can only advise any genuine forum readers to listen to the author (see previous post) and read the book, so that they can make up their own minds about what is propaganda and what not.

Which is the multimillion dollar industry that has got a lot to lose? - The beekeepers with a few hives in their backyards or the pesticide corporations?
So which of these groups has the money and is going to pay for propaganda?