38mm spaced Hoffman frames

[Neils]

In theory it's possible to get Hoffman frames on 38mm spacing rather than the default 35mm. My google fu must be weak because the only detail I can find on this is a thread back in 2009 started by... Er... Me.

Was just wondering if anyone had any idea who might supply these mystical items. I know I could just slap spacers on the existing frames but I quite like not having to.

[gavin]

They do tend to look untidy in a brood box, don't they :)

Frames with spacers/plastic ends/plastic metal ends that is.

[Neils]

And they fall off etc etc /winge :D

[Jon]

I use mainly Hoffmans but I have frames with plastic spacers on the ends as well.
They don't fall off once there is a smidgeon of propolis applied.
Some beekeepers think you are more likely to crush a queen with Hoffmans as there is a bigger area being pushed together but you should wait until the queen is in the middle of a frame before pushing them together anyway.
I reckon it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

[gavin]

Back to Nellie's original post - is there a good reason for going to 38mm? I quite like the option of slipping in an extra frame in some of my boxes and the bees seem happy with the space they have in the brood box, as long as the available space stays as it is and doesn't expand and contract. In other words keep the frames pushed together.

[Jon]

I like to have a bit of a gap at one end of the box, ie 35mm suits me.
It will hold a thin dummy board and allows the first frame to be easily removed during an inspection.
Even if there is no dummy board it is unlikely to get filled with brace comb if you are inspecting weekly.

[Neils]

Back to Nellie's original post - is there a good reason for going to 38mm? I quite like the option of slipping in an extra frame in some of my boxes and the bees seem happy with the space they have in the brood box, as long as the available space stays as it is and doesn't expand and contract. In other words keep the frames pushed together.

Well as far as I can see, the only reason that they're 35mm as standard is to try and limit the amount of drone brood produced so I thought I'd give 38mm spacing a go if I could find some and see what difference, if any, was apparent. Though I have seen conflicting reports around the place that "natural" spacing is closer to 35mm than 38mm.

I know I could just stick spacers on them, but I do actually quite like hoffmans, if you're careful then squashing bees isn't a problem.

[Adam]

Its not uncommon to get a mm or so on each side of the Hoffman parts unless you scrape the propolis off regularly. Unlike Jon I tend to squeeze 12 frames in a box or 11 in a WBC so they tend to be tight. If you can recall the luxury of putting new frames in a new brood box they're quite sloppy at first.

It seems that if I use a dummy board that's thinner than 35 mm the bees try to build comb between the dummy board and the inside of the box. I guess 2 x 18 mm ply dummy boards would do the trick; lift up the outside one and then slide the inner one across and out. I've never actually done it like this. Maybe worth a try.

[Rosie]

I think that if I wanted 38mm spacing I would start with 35mm hoffmans and then fit narrow plastic end spacers after they had been drawn out, although that would give you about 37mm spacing. You could fit a few with spacers and leave the rest at 35mm.

My own system is to fit 3 or 4 frames with fishing line and starter strips and then pick the one with the most drone comb for wide spacer treatment. I take out a frame at that stage to go from 12 to 11. It seems to work well and I get all the drones I need for queen rearing. By fitting wide spacers on a single frame you still get around 35mm spacing but I space that particular one further by eye. The spacer is just to serve as a marker for me to remember not to push it up tight when I put frames back in after an inspection. You could fit narrow spacers to the 2 frames on either side of your drone frame to give you about 41mm spacing or fit 37 mm spacers to all three but that sounds a bit tight for drone comb.

You will find that if they have a drone comb permanently in the hive you get no burr comb on the underside of the bottom bars or patches of drone comb in worker frames. Everything gets neater and the bees seem happier. I think they like their drones even though they are useless couch potatoes.

Rosie

[susbees]

I like that idea Rosie. Not sure I can be that organised though. As I am on commercials tempted to dummy both ends on the native type colonies for the summer

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[Savoyard]

Back to Nellie's original post - is there a good reason for going to 38mm? .

It has been suggested that wider spacing impedes varroa activity. A nearby beekeeper is doing some experiments. Last time I heard, he had not given up, so there may be something in it.

(He mixes long, short and absent spacers, both metal and plastic, to get a variety of spaces...)

Savoyard

[Neils]

From my perspective it was more to do with raising Drones.

My intended solutions is to stick plastic ends on the frame that will contain the drone brood. Certainly I'll be going back to using foundation for the colonies I intend to use for queen/Drone rearing and using foundation to keep all the drone brood on a particular frame seems to make sense to me. If I put that frame on a 38mm Spacer, job done.

[Adam]

You should get drone brood on drone foundation with a 35 mm spacing Neil. If you put a super frame in and expect to get drone brood underneath sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't!

[Neils]

Well foundation except for the drone brood frame :). I might experiment, one hive on 38mm drone frame spacing, one on 35mn and see if there's any appreciable difference.

[Stromnessbees]

In theory it's possible to get Hoffman frames on 38mm spacing rather than the default 35mm. My google fu must be weak because the only detail I can find on this is a thread back in 2009 started by... Er... Me.

Was just wondering if anyone had any idea who might supply these mystical items. I know I could just slap spacers on the existing frames but I quite like not having to.

Hi Nellie!

Some dedicated beekeepers in Germany have gone the opposite direction and started keeping bees on 32 mm wide frames. The bees and the beekeepers seem to be happy with the reults, but I am not sure that 32 mm is wide enoug for dronecomb.
I always check my new Hoffman frames, and if they are any wider than 35 mm I whittle them down a bit.

Measurements in feral colonies have shown that bees like narrow comb spacing in the centre for brood rearing and wider spacing for drone production and honey storage towards the edge of the colony.

D