Dodgy deals?

[Neonach]

Well-established beekeeper turns to rearing queens and nucs to supplement income. Or rather he keeps the reared queens for himself, and actually supplies his oldest (and worn-out?) queens. Normal practice or a dodgy dealer? Opinions?:confused:

[Jon]

Dodgy in my opinion.
I give away older queens I am replacing if anyone wants them, and I make it clear they are a couple of years old and surplus to requirements.
Some older queens can still be very good layers but you would need to make it clear to the purchaser what he is getting.
I think that a nuc should have the current year's queen in it and it should also have been laying in it for several weeks before sale as opposed to being added to brood and bees from another queen a couple of days before the sale.
A UK nuc sold in spring would have a queen from the previous year.
There is such an interest in beekeeping these days that it has brought out the greed in a few people.

Did you see what Thorne charge (https://secure.thorne.co.uk/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/millhouse/thorne/shop/springer?ACTION=thispage&THISPAGE=page10001.html&ORDER_ID=157589346)?

[Trog]

I would be appalled at anyone selling a 'nuc' with an elderly queen. This year I sold a nuc with an overwintered (mated September) queen early in the year, one with an early mated queen who was actually a supersedure queen who got lost on her mating flight and landed in a hedge (a smashing girl from a really good colony) and a nuc that was an artifical swarm early in the year. All with their own offspring. I keep my old girls until the bees themselves replace them as I have sufficient colonies to provide replacement queens if the bees miscalculate. However, as I've been increasing colony numbers so as to have nucs for those who want them, I now find myself with a surplus! At least overwintered nucs have proved their hardiness so there's something to be said for them!

[Jon]

At least overwintered nucs have proved their hardiness so there's something to be said for them!

An overwintered nuc with the previous summer's queen purchased in April or May is the best deal you can get.

[Neonach]

An overwintered nuc with the previous summer's queen purchased in April or May is the best deal you can get.

That seems right to me, Jon!

I guess the worst would be to pay good money for a nuc which has been assembled with a view to supplying a box with a loud buzz for the bucks, but at its core has an old queen the seller wants rid of - and foists it off on inexperienced beekeepers. You'll guess this isn't a purely hypothetical example I'm constructing here! Once bitten, twice shy.

[Trog]

How did you know it was an old queen?

[The Drone Ranger]

fancy one of these
always this season guaranteed
I'll take the overwintered one with her own bees thanks :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYs5Ot0ayBw&feature=related

[fatshark]

How did you know it was an old queen?

Marked yellow by someone who correctly uses the queen marking scheme = 2007? :(

[Trog]

Surely someone wanting to pass off old queens as young ones heading nucs wouldn't mark them? (I don't mark mine, but for other reasons!)

[necterboy]

Not A normal business practice. Shame on him if he's not informing his cutomers of this. Dodgy dude if you ask me.....

[Neonach]

How did you know it was an old queen?

Now that's a good question! I don't know, I just suspect - from the tatty marking, clipped wing, no unsealed brood in the nuc when I got it (despite there being pollen and stores and being good weather), that within a couple of weeks the workers superseded her, despite there being by then plenty of space in the hive and plenty of forage to go for. If it was definitely knowable, I don't suppose the supplier would risk it. I mention it because another beekeeper has - quite unprompted - raised the same suspicion.

Enough said on this, I guess: it seems I'm not alone in thinking it sharp practice.

[Adam]

I'm sure it's very tempting to sell of a queen that is old or, say, or has been proven to produce ratty bees. Sling her in a box with a couple of frames of docile carnis and its £100 or more. Easy money. I have sold a few nucs this year and last and I am careful to sell the best I can. Each nuc is checked the day it leaves for the presence of the queen, eggs; no queencells, plenty of brood with a solid brood pattern (all hers) plus enough stores. I can tell the recipient the queen's mother, the emergence day and when she started laying. If I can do it, there is no reason why all nucs shpould not have that information with them if desired.


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