Mystery drone layer

[Emma]

I have a mystery drone layer. Mystery to me, anyway. i've not seen quite this pattern before, so it's taken me a few inspections to be sure what's going on.

It's a small, failed nuc, now occupying 2 out of its 3 combs. As far as I know it hasn't had any new worker brood since June. I've taken it apart, with the combs in another box, looking for a queen, and I can't find one. Not even an underfed, worker-sized queen, which is something I've been able to spot before in a larger nuc than this. No queeny swagger, no reddish legs, no slender pointy abdomen, nowhere.

They have a tiny area of drone brood, and I've gradually realised that it isn't just hatching out, it's being slowly renewed. I haven't counted but it's maybe 50 cells. No eggs are being laid outwith this original patch of drone cells, there's none of the ruined worker comb that I'd expect with a drone-laying queen. There is just a tiny, occasional trickle of eggs in those existing drone cells, as they become vacant. And those eggs are well placed, just one egg per drone cell, in the centre, at the bottom.

The bees aren't happy with the situation, because they keep drawing one or two queen cells. But when I checked the pupa inside one of them, it had drone eyes.

I'm mystified, and have probably wasted more time on this nuc than I've put into any of the viable queens raised in the apiary this year. I wanted to unite it with one that needs reinforcements, but don't dare do it in case there's a hidden queen, or a rebellion of laying workers.

I could just shake them out, but that would be so miserable. They're still defending themselves against wasps, still bringing in pollen, still chaining together to create warmth. And they have got me stumped.

Can anyone explain?????!

[The Drone Ranger]

I have a habit of spending time on lost causes so you have my sympathy
When we found a weak colony with a drone layer in my friends small apiary I didn't hesitate to find her and shake the bees in front of a nearby hive
It's always easier to do the right thing for somebody else than yourself
People warned us not to name the chickens but we did it anyway and the vet bills followed 🐣

[Mellifera Crofter]

As they are trying to draw queen cells, mightn't it help to give them a frame with eggs, or a queen cell if you have one?
Kitta

[gavin]

You're right, these ones are tricky and end up consuming a lot of time. Yesterday I had one I've looked in twice before and decided that there couldn't be a queen in there after searching high and low, again. Yet the bees were relatively calm, even without the (presumably) drone queen cells I saw last time. I just fused it with a small queen-right 2-frame unit (actually the mother of the drone layer) into the centre with a couple of puffs of Fabreze to help them (re-)unite. Probably should have put in a test frame of eggs, but there is too much to do and I have small splits to spare.

There were another couple of MiniPluses without any sign of the queen that had been there. I just assumed they'd kicked her out and would accept a new cell. We'll see.

[Emma]

I have a habit of spending time on lost causes so you have my sympathy
When we found a weak colony with a drone layer in my friends small apiary I didn't hesitate to find her and shake the bees in front of a nearby hive
It's always easier to do the right thing for somebody else than yourself
People warned us not to name the chickens but we did it anyway and the vet bills followed ��

Yes, lost causes are almost irresistible. (My neighbour takes her hens to the vet, too. Hens are affa cute.)

But it was the puzzle that got me. I just couldn't figure what was happening. So yesterday morning I consulted my bee mentor (aka Google) & it told me that yes bees will try to raise queens from laying-worker eggs & that laying workers usually lay in one small patch. I've only had laying workers once before, back in 2011 when all was mysterious & bee knowledge was dropping out of my brain almost as fast as I stuffed it in, so I'd forgotten what it looked like.

So I shook them out yesterday morning, in hopes of a simple life. Not a sign of a queen anywhere, so I'm almost 100% that it was laying worker. Possibly just one laying worker, there were so few eggs - & only ever one egg per cell, & in just the right place, which is what really foxed me. I can now see that their drone patch does look like distorted worker cells. With wild comb you quite often get a vertical gap with drone on one side & worker on the other, so I didn't realise. Besides, it looked so different when it was being cuddled by bees:
2385

I followed the usual drill: take their hive away, don't leave anything around that looks like a hive...

...apart from the hive next door. Ooops!

2386

It was only a foot away (things got a bit crowded in the apiary this summer, as per usual). The displaced bees decided it would do just nicely as a place to land, en masse. Nasanoving & milling around & tongue-stropping all over the place, for the rest of the day, & fortunately only an occasional bit of fighting, as far as I could see. At least I got one thing right - I'd chosen a nice sunny day for it, because I thought it might get a bit messy. It's never nice seeing stranded bees in the rain.

So now I'm waiting for a few days before checking to see whether next door's queen survived the process, or whether I now have a much bigger laying-worker colony. Because laying workers definitely can fly, I tested that in 2011...

[Emma]

As they are trying to draw queen cells, mightn't it help to give them a frame with eggs, or a queen cell if you have one?
Kitta

If it had been earlier in the summer I might have tried that. But I've already raised 8 queens in my small apiary this year, which is way more than I need. And they were just a clutch of old bees, I was happier with the thought of them merging with a successful colony. I totally admired their spirit, though, still bringing in the occasional load of pollen, and batting wasps away, and sending their tiny clutch of boys into the world. Full-sized ones, too. I'd thought drone-layers could only raise midgets, but they all looked just fine.

[Emma]

Uniting laying workers isn't supposed to work, which is why I avoided it.
But now I'm remembering that I tried it in 2011, and it worked apart from a tiny rump of bees left upstairs with their drone brood.
Probably should've tried it, would've been a more useful outcome! They certainly seemed keen on the idea of a queen.

[busybeephilip]

Uniting laying workers isn't supposed to work, which is why I avoided it.
But now I'm remembering that I tried it in 2011, and it worked apart from a tiny rump of bees left upstairs with their drone brood.
Probably should've tried it, would've been a more useful outcome! They certainly seemed keen on the idea of a queen.

Many persons will tell you that it is impossible to requeen a hive of laying workers. I have manged to do it several times, simply remove ALL the brood combs and replace with empty comb then introduce your queen as normal

[The Drone Ranger]

Somebody might have seen a queen raised on an old larva that is neither queen nor worker so very difficult to spot but usually drone laying
They only lay one egg per cell and are not prolific
Just a possibility
I think shaking them out is fine I bet they mostly all got in next door

[Kate Atchley]

Many persons will tell you that it is impossible to requeen a hive of laying workers. I have manged to do it several times, simply remove ALL the brood combs and replace with empty comb then introduce your queen as normal

New to me, this solution. Will try it when I next need to sort out dlws. Thanks