Native or local?

[Bumble]

I have almost persuaded myself to buy a native queen this year, but I'm hesitating because I don't know enough about buying in queens, don't know fully understand the possible pitfalls of future crosses, and don't want to waste a good queen. I don't want to go down the route of buying in new queens every year. If I go ahead, this one would be 'it', probably the only queen I'll ever buy.

I'm a long way south of Scotland. Beebase says there are 145 apiaries within a 10km radius of my main apiary, I know it's an underestimate. There are several bee farmers with colonies within reach of this apiary. Most new beekeepers round here buy bees from dealers, many choose carniolans because the teachers advise them to, although some go for imported Buckfasts.

Discussion with well-respected local elders makes me think I should stick to raising my own, from my own, but there's a niggling thought that I should try it and see what happens. If I toss a coin I'm disappointed with either result!

What do you think?

[gavin]

Move. ;):cool:

[Jon]

The queen you buy will be fine but as you say the future crosses will be hit or miss.
Given the background population you describe with different subspecies plus Buckfast your future crosses are all going to be hit or miss even if you start with something local. Unless you want to move to a Scottish island as Gavin suggests the next best option would be to get a queen rearing group started where everyone works with the same bee race. In that way the drones from this subspecies will dominate and the likelihood of getting decent crosses will increase.

[Pete L]

Yes, best way would be to start a queen rearing group, where all the beekeepers of the 145 apiaries within a 10km radius and greater of you, agree to keep the same type of bees.

[Jon]

LOL
Yes, that is where your diplomatic skills will get tested!
You never get everyone on board but you can move the odds in your favour.

[fatshark]

I've 'imported' native bees (from the sort of island that Gavin and Jon are referring to) and used them to raise queens which were subsequently open mated in an area packed with other beekeepers. I think Beebase list 160+ within 10km. None have been terrible, most have been fine and a few have been pretty good. Some of my beekeeping friends routinely have much worse bees than the worst I've ever raised. Perhaps I've been lucky …

[gavin]

A couple of weeks ago I had a long discussion with a man who deliberately crossed Colonsay queens with carniolans and has a business selling the products. That seems a waste of good genetic resources to me, but he said the resulting cross produced quite nice bees. I suspect that these highly bred carnies are *so* gentle that any tendency to feisty hybrids is not so much in evidence. That seems to be C4U's experience too.

There are plenty of places Bumble could move to where there are fewer neighbouring beekeeper without needing to take the drastic step of going for island life, attractive though that may be. However without that as an option - why not give them a try? There is probably some Amm in the local mix anyway, going by the data presented at Llangollen last September.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bumble

One way is to use something like a Snelgrove board (sorry to mention this again)
You have a two queen hive then and you have options about which queen you keep
You can select the best behaved thats what I try and do
One good thing you will never be in any danger of inbreeding :)

[gavin]

It has come round to that time of year when folk are polishing their Snelgrove boards for the season ahead! I was speaking to one Snelgrove enthusiast on Tuesday. We have one in the association shed but it has never been used. Maybe I'll encourage the deputy apiary manager to have a go.

The Cloake board is the one I'm hoping to try this year, useful for queen raising. Sorry, wandering off topic.

Nice to see you posting DR.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Gavin
I have been making a few to replace the warped ones
Plywood is a pain like that
Did you get your isolated site set up for the breeding ?

[Feckless Drone]

You know spring is here when DR posts, and isn't that good.
For bumble - Trying to compete against 100+ (guestimate) drone producers near your lovely young queens is going to be a tall order. I cannot envisage a single keeper making inroads in that environment.

[gavin]

Yes, about to enter year two now. Not only that, I'm no longer gainfully employed and starting to follow Jon into the bee (and honey) raising cottage industry.

[fatshark]

Did you get your isolated site set up for the breeding ?

Context is everything …

And whilst we're on boards, I built and used a Horsley board (http://www.bee-craft.com/the-horsley-board/) last year and was quite please with the outcome. Fewer doors to open than the Snelgrove so less for me to forget ;)

[Bumble]

The rest of the household don't like the idea of moving to an island, not even for the sake of our bees. They just don't have the right priorities! :D

We have a local queen rearing group, they're happy enough with the local bees they raise.

I suppose I just don't want to waste resources, and waste a good queen. I know one queen isn't going to make any real difference to the local gene pool but it would be a start, wouldn't it?

Looks as if I'm talking myself into it, again, but in a week's time I'll probably have a perfectly good reason not to go ahead.

My vote, by the way, is with the Horsley board.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bumble
I have a Horsley board from years back but I've never used it
If you bought a queen you can convince yourself it is no better than what you have (or maybe it is)
The daughters will probably be more like the local drone pool after a couple of years
How good are the local queen rearing group ? it might be worth joining them

[brothermoo]

Just found out this weekend tjat a beekeeper within a mile of my out apiary has ordered 20 buckfast queens... time to make that my quarantine apiary!

[busybeephilip]

Its hard to find good sites esp for what you want to do and there is a lot more interest in bees in NI now. You'll probably find that heading towards ards coast or peninsula might be your best bet or the site you mentioned to me near downpatrick and even there you might have problems

[brothermoo]

It is the nature of the beast unfortunately!

[Bumble]

If you bought a queen you can convince yourself it is no better than what you have (or maybe it is)
The daughters will probably be more like the local drone pool after a couple of years
All true.


How good are the local queen rearing group ? it might be worth joining them
I've been tempted to join but can't really commit the time just now and it wouldn't be fair to turn up only when I can, rather than when I should. At the moment I'm happy enough to watch, and listen, from the sidelines and from their reports.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bumble
You won't need to join usually they will be over the moon to just sell you a queen because you are working with them all be it passively
They might have nothing to sell you in which case they only have themselves to blame if you go elsewhere but it's nice to check first I suppose

[Bumble]

Yes, they sell queens at a reasonable price, which is another option although I don't think theirs would be much different from my own.

[The Drone Ranger]

How about one of these http://www.swindonhoneybeeconservation.org.uk/research/