Large scale imports of bees into Scotland

[gavin]

Don't have a scanner to hand and it doesn't seem to be online but only in the print edition. In today's Courier (Dundee) in the farming pages and under the headline 'Aid Package for Beekeepers':

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Mr Lochhead [Scottish Government Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment] did, however, make a firm commitment to help one particularly hard-hit sector. He is to make £200,000 of Scottish Government aid available to commercial beekeepers to help them restock their hives.

The announcement was made during a visit to the Moray Beekeepers' Association where he was due to open a new training apiary.

Scottish bee farmers have had a difficult time of late for a number of reasons, but to add to their woes it is now estimated that around 4,000 colonies have been lost due to the prolonged winter weather.

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Murray was quoted, talking about the poor summer and bees in poor condition plus the interminable winter. 'This would be a 12-15 month project and would involve individual beekeepers at least match funding the government package.'

How many packages of bees can you buy for £200,000 (or is it a total of £400,000?)?

[prakel]

Any mention, at a minimum, of the number of packages an individual can import on this scheme being tied to proof that they're genuine replacements for losses? Or is it an open door for the unsrupulous to start a sell on business backed by Government money?

[fatshark]

How many packages of bees can you buy for £200,000?

Significantly fewer than you could last year I suspect. In the midlands I'm hearing many experienced beekeepers have lost 30-50% of colonies. Assuming this reflects the situation countrywide demand for queens and imports is therefore likely to be very high. Prices for nucs within our association are one third higher than last year ... but still much less than the 'open market'. I appreciate commercial pricing and scale of orders mean the markets are probably rather different, but would think that the high demand from 'amateurs' will inevitably have an impact on supply for larger enterprises.

Those of us who favour (and promote) local queen rearing over imports are going to be in the potentially tricky situation of being advocates for an activity that cannot meet demand. I fear this will lead to a loss of credibility ...

On a brighter note (that is, unless you have nucs and overwintered queens to sell ;)), I discovered last night that the farmer here has ploughed under the failed autumn sown OSR and planted acres and acres of field beans. Typically, this fills the June gap, but at the rate this year is going it'll be mid-July at the earliest.

[prakel]

Those of us who favour (and promote) local queen rearing over imports are going to be in the potentially tricky situation of being advocates for an activity that cannot meet demand. I fear this will lead to a loss of credibility ...

Not sure we've anything new to worry about there!!

My attitude is just 'keep going'. I know that I'm doing something right (that assumption is based on the fact that I'm definately not 'lucky'!) so I'll continue rearing queens through the summer, over wiintering them and then using the good ones the following Spring. I did contemplate the possibility of buying in (from within the UK) what I believe to be some very good stock to fill a few of my many empty boxes and then use as future base to breed from but circumstances slowed things down long enough for me to back away from the idea. Looking at what I've got coming through now, I'm glad I didn't buy -and no reflection on the breeder in question; starting from scratch he'd be my first port-of-call. After years of struggling with nasty bees things seem to have finally turned the corner.

[Jon]

Those of us who favour (and promote) local queen rearing over imports are going to be in the potentially tricky situation of being advocates for an activity that cannot meet demand. I fear this will lead to a loss of credibility ...

Fatshark, that is our problem in a nutshell.
On the back of our queen rearing initiative we have 3 associations starting to work together to supply nucs and queens headed by native stock.
Six of us representing the 3 associations met up in January to set targets, sort out nuc supply and get a mentoring scheme in place.
Then came the losses with many experienced beekeepers losing most of their stock.
We also have a list of beginners keen to get their first bees.

We need to be careful how we manage the situation as creating high expectations and then failing to deliver would be bad for credibility.
We have told the beginners that they are a priority and we will do out best to get them bees at some point over the summer.
Meanwhile, we are organising a summer programme at the association apiary where the beginners will get a chance to handle and work with bees which should take some of the pressure off.

I think we should be ok for producing a reasonable number of queens but the problem is going to be finding enough bees to put them to in order to make up colonies. You can only split a box of bees so many times.

[fatshark]

We have a mentoring and 'beginners get priority' scheme already. However, with even experienced beekeepers losing many colonies over winter, there is going to be a shortfall. I overwintered queens but could only produce strong nucs now by sacrificing my queen rearing colonies for this season. Since I'm intending to scale up queen rearing this year that is not an option. I'm hoping a combination of managing expectations and - in due course - providing good quality nucs with local/native queens will work. In the meantime we're discussing a mentoring scheme spanning two seasons - getting beginners from nuc to overwintered full colony and then through to splitting off their own nuc the following year (all in the association apiary).

If only it would warm up a little (below 10oC here again today, with a chilly easterly) ...

[prakel]

We have a mentoring and 'beginners get priority' scheme already. However, with even experienced beekeepers losing many colonies over winter, there is going to be a shortfall. I overwintered queens but could only produce strong nucs now by sacrificing my queen rearing colonies for this season. Since I'm intending to scale up queen rearing this year that is not an option. I'm hoping a combination of managing expectations and - in due course - providing good quality nucs with local/native queens will work. In the meantime we're discussing a mentoring scheme spanning two seasons - getting beginners from nuc to overwintered full colony and then through to splitting off their own nuc the following year (all in the association apiary).

Sounds like a nice scheme to get on. I especially like the idea of holding the participants for a second season to make sure the first year's training has really sunk in.

[Jon]

Our proposal for beginners is to move away from late summer supply to spring supply via overwintered nucs.
A beginner who messes up in August will almost certainly lose his colony over winter.
The nucs will be placed in an association apiary and beginners will receive weekly mentoring starting in April, weather permitting, for at least 4 or 5 sessions.
The beginner will pay for his nuc and it will stay in the association apiary until he/she is ready to take it home.
Locally, we have not been preparing beginners properly, ie they are getting bees when they still have a lack of practical experience.

Problem is, we lost most of our overwintered nucs so there were not enough to pilot this.
We have just enough colonies to run our queen rearing programme this summer and most of those are mine.

We hope to hold on to our beginners via membership of the queen rearing group and/or the summer skills programme.

[drumgerry]

I think the truth of the matter is that we'll always be in a difficult position to argue against imports as long as we can't produce enough home reared bees to satisfy demand. My sincere wish however is that more was being done by the Scottish government (and the relevant authorities for the other parts of the islands) to help us get to that goal. Nothing will ever be achieved if they're going to get duff advice time and again and make available large sums for what can only be large scale imports. It's throwing good money after bad as it's pretty much guaranteed this situation will recur the next time we have a protracted winter.

As to the "more being done" what about some investment in a breeding programme to benefit everyone using native stock as a foundation. Form a working party with interested parties to formulate a strategy and throw some money at it. We could get something long term going then. The cynical side of me says though it'll be a cold day in hell when we have breeding stations up and down the country, a substantial number of people trained in II and nucs being produced at a subsidised rate for commercial and small scale beekeepers. Just imagine what could be achieved with £200K though......

[The Drone Ranger]

think it's bad news for the most part
It's not just perpetuating the situation where this years imported queens are expendable and replaced next year
Now we are likely to see package bees imported i.e. whole colonies to replace losses

Anyone who wants to increase their colonies should try a swarm board in a period of nectar flow
Think of it as collecting seed from your own garden plants

Not everyone should try to become a queen breeder because the material they are breeding from is often not ideal
Most people don't breed their own sweet peas

If you have a couple of hives then queen selection would be nonsense unless you join a breeding group
Likewise most people should not really sell bees or produce nucs for sale unless they have some handling and honey gathering qualities

SBA used to carry ads from small operations like John Forzey etc selling queens they had bred for £12 or so

I think they had a positive effect on beekeeping and can't see that any real harm was done in fact productive gentle bees help everyone

The principle of buying local is a good one but by demonising people breeding and selling UK bees has become counterproductive

[drumgerry]

Just had a thought. Richard Lochhead is my MSP. Seriously thinking of trying to meet with him about this. Myself and my OH have had dealings with him concerning our disabled son and found him to be a reasonable man to deal with.

So....if I do meet with him I have some ideas of my own of what I'd like to say. Ie concerning the development of a national strategy to help make us self-sufficient in bees. Sounds like an (overly?) ambitious aim maybe but hey you've got to shoot for the stars! My feeling is that if we talk about it endlessly nothing positive will ever happen and those that shout the loudest (in this case the commercial guys) will shape policy. Someone has to do something and it's time the campaign shifted away from eg the banning of neonics towards something which will actually help our bees. If I have to be the one to get the ball rolling on a campaign so be it. And the neonic thing shows that you can get something done if you go about it in the "right" way.

If anyone could share some information with me which I could arm myself with in advance of the meeting I'd be very grateful. The sort of thing I'm looking for is a breakdown of colony numbers in Scotland between commercial and non-commercial beekeepers. I suspect we (the little guys) have more than them which again makes the help they're getting pretty galling. Also if anyone (Calum?) could describe to me how the queen breeding stations in Germany and other European countries operate and how they benefit ordinary beekeepers that would also help.

I don't see why we can't with the proper will and funding emulate how other countries support their bees and beekeepers. Surely that'd be better than throwing money at commercial beekeepers willy nilly. We should be trying to help people like the John Forzey you mentioned DR. And creating more of them the length and breadth of the country.

Am I the only one who is thinking this?

[Jon]

Gerry, you are already on the right track starting your local queen rearing group.
What you are proposing does not necessarily need a lot of funding.
The main thing is getting people singing off the same hymn sheet and working with local stock.
You need to get more people involved and try and get as many beekeepers and as many local associations involved as you can manage.
If people keep looking for a quick fix by (a) importing and (b) bringing in a mix of bee subspecies, there is no hope.
The commercial breeders complain of a lack of local queens - but stirring up the genepool all the time with imports of different subspecies makes bee breeding next to impossible in these areas.

[Pete L]

How many packages of bees can you buy for £200,000 (or is it a total of £400,000?)?

A few thousand looking at the prices of some of suppliers, like in the link below. Could become a bit like a few other northern parts of the world, buy new bees every spring, collect the honey, give away or sell the bees in the autumn, or...
http://www.apiservices.com/fert/fert_us.htm

[mbc]

A few thousand looking at the prices of some of suppliers, like in the link below. Could become a bit like a few other northern parts of the world, buy new bees every spring, collect the honey, give away or sell the bees in the autumn, or...
http://www.apiservices.com/fert/fert_us.htm


I thought depopulating hives in the autumn was largely becoming a thing of the past, even as far north as Alaska.

[Pete L]

I thought depopulating hives in the autumn was largely becoming a thing of the past, even as far north as Alaska.

Maybe, but it could be catching on here.

[mbc]

I think the truth of the matter is that we'll always be in a difficult position to argue against imports as long as we can't produce enough home reared bees to satisfy demand. My sincere wish however is that more was being done by the Scottish government (and the relevant authorities for the other parts of the islands) to help us get to that goal. Nothing will ever be achieved if they're going to get duff advice time and again and make available large sums for what can only be large scale imports. It's throwing good money after bad as it's pretty much guaranteed this situation will recur the next time we have a protracted winter.

As to the "more being done" what about some investment in a breeding programme to benefit everyone using native stock as a foundation. Form a working party with interested parties to formulate a strategy and throw some money at it. We could get something long term going then. The cynical side of me says though it'll be a cold day in hell when we have breeding stations up and down the country, a substantial number of people trained in II and nucs being produced at a subsidised rate for commercial and small scale beekeepers. Just imagine what could be achieved with £200K though......

It would be a massive step forward if something like you suggest could be implemented throughout the British Isles, we would still be a century or so behind much of continental Europe mind !
From an outsiders perspective it seems commercial interests hold sway over the environment when it comes to the Scottish governments approach to rural issues, at least this appears true when reading about salmon farming vs recreational salmon fishing.

[mbc]

Maybe, but it could be catching on here.

I can see that going down well with the bunny huggers, not !
Perhaps it is fairly in line with "natural" beekeeping though ?!

[drumgerry]

Jon - I'm starting to think that leaving it to unsupported volunteers like you and others like you isn't enough. It needs a national (and in this instance I mean Scotland!) approach to the problem. It seems easy enough to put concepts like "neonics are bad" into politicians minds to the extent that they'll act on it. So why not a properly thought out strategy for our honeybees? One that means we don't have to import from mainland Europe or even south of the border. Not sure why the SBA isn't shouting more about this. The current situation isn't working and there seems to be funding around (the £200k mentioned above) so why can't we who know what the problems are lobby for change? Someone needs to do it!

MBC - I think a lot of the problem is that the commercial (and environmental) interests lobby more effectively. I believe we could change the politicians minds if we went about it in the right way. Hell we're supposed to live in a democracy so let's use it!

[fatshark]

How many queens/packages are imported annually to Scotland? Similarly, what is the demand for nucs early in the season? Only when you know the scale of the issue is it possible to determine whether it will be possible to have a home-grown solution.

In the UK I've seen figures of 5-10 thousand queens a year imported in 2009/2010. I suspect with the increasing interest in beekeeping this figure is now very much greater. That's a heck of a lot of queens to graft and get mated. Particularly with the weather we're often faced with.

[mbc]

In the UK I've seen figures of 5-10 thousand queens a year imported in 2009/2010. I suspect with the increasing interest in beekeeping this figure is now very much greater. That's a heck of a lot of queens to graft and get mated. Particularly with the weather we're often faced with.

Is it really a heck of a lot of queens ? I reckon I do at least 1/50th of that each season myself, and I'm not close to being the largest producer of queens even in this tiny corner of the country.

[Pete L]

That's a heck of a lot of queens to graft and get mated. Particularly with the weather we're often faced with.

And to have ready in the early spring, along with the quantity of bees to make up nucs or packages to replace losses,and prevent the need for imports/packages. The queens would need to be over wintered, which is no problem at all, but i doubt for the same sort of prices that imported queens cost.

[drumgerry]

I'd be happy to see imports banned tomorrow. And we just deal with the fallout. If that entails becoming more realistic with what we can achieve with the bees then so be it. If that entails beekeepers getting off their arses and raising their own queens so much the better. Right now with imported queens a couple of clicks of a mouse away there's no motivation to the lazy beekeeper!

[Neils]

I'd be happy to see imports banned tomorrow. And we just deal with the fallout. If that entails becoming more realistic with what we can achieve with the bees then so be it. If that entails beekeepers getting off their arses and raising their own queens so much the better. Right now with imported queens a couple of clicks of a mouse away there's no motivation to the lazy beekeeper!

Gerry, I agree with your previous post, but right now banning imports I just don't see to be enforceable. I think there needs to be a whole attitude shift and/or change in outlook.

Could that money have leased land on a balaeric or greek island that UK stocks could be raised on? is overwintering Nucs really not an option? This year my nucs have been a disaster in addition to my main hives. I'm going to persevere because I don't want imported bees by any definition, but mine are a hobby. If I scaled my numbers up to commercial levels this would be a total disaster and I'd need bees now, now, now.

[drumgerry]

So we just let the commercial guys set the tone of everything? If they can't sustain their operations from within the resources available to them in these islands then it's them who should be changing their practices in my opinion. So they lose X hundred colonies in the winter - could it be that their imported bees aren't suitable for our climate? And then they bring in more to replace them and the cycle goes on. Something needs to change. And I don't mean huge subsidies to allow them to import even more bees.

I think raising UK bees in the Med would be doomed to failure. After all what we need are locally adapted bees.

And overwintering nucs needn't be a disaster in an ordinary winter/spring. Even in this one I've brought a few of my own 2012 nucs through. With the easy way out available of imports there's simply not the motivation for the commercial guys to do the same on a bigger scale.

[Neils]

I think the commercial guys will set the tone for the simple reason that they overtly make money.

The med idea I'm still not sure I see the problem with, but it takes organisation. A US queen breeder raised 500,000 + queens a year and gives a discount to those who send back the 10 best queens in their stock. Why can't that idea be adopted? as a breeder 'I' sell you a marked queen, end of second season you send it back to my med, isolated island so that packages/nucs/queens can be raised ready for spring.

I've never bought a bee since I took over the site I have at the moment, all my stocks are locally raised, some better than others, but I do this for a hobby and I struggle against other hobbyist buying in queens/Nucs from wherever has them available or the best adverts at any given time.

A ban on imports is never going to work because they have bees available when people want them. What you need are enough people raising queens, overwintering them, whatever, ready for April/May prepared to undercut the import market rather than impose a premium for local stock for it not to be worthwhile importing bees and we are a million miles away from that. Even the south UK bees that Scotland is buying are still largely imported.

[gavin]

When I'm made Prime Minister of Scotland some time soon after September 2014, one of my first acts will be to bring in the Sustainable Scottish Beekeeping Regulations 2015. These will, in essence, bring about:

A ten-year transition period at the end of which imports of bee and queens into Scotland will be prohibited. One exception: licenced propagators in partner countries (England included), if they can meet certain requirements:

- the Scottish provence of breeding stock and suitable isolation for mating sites
- the health of bees including virus and other pathogen testing for freedom from non-indigenous disease
- tracking systems to ensure traceability and veracity of claims made

Obviously, the use of public funds to support unsustainable practices in beekeeping will cease. However public funds will be available to encourage the sustainability of beekeeping in Scotland in line with Scotland's acknowledgement of the importance of the Food and Drink Sector. How will this happen?

First of all, those active in commercial activities in beekeeping will be invited to subscribe to a new Sustainable Beekeeping Charter, drawn up in collaboration with the more progressive actors in the sector. The charter will place requirements on beekeepers to follow professional standards in bee management including feeding and provision with adequate forage and aggressive measures to almost eliminate foulbrood in affected operations. It will also establish maximum stocking rates for popular beekeeping areas. Those subscribing to the charter will agree to keep only bees derived from near-native types from bees in Scotland. These will be bred stocks (see below), will not have to be of high Amm purity but will be probably selected from the best near-native stocks still held by commercial beekeepers.

The Charter will also place obligations on the beekeepers participating to use only EU-approved bee medicines, and to adhere to the highest standards of Varroa and Nosema control.

The Charter will enable participating beekeepers to use the new Scottish Sustainable Beekeeping Chartermark, and it would be anticipated that the Mark would gain favour with consumers and become sought-after by supermarkets.

The Scottish Government will support these activities by giving grants for start-up bee breeders and bee raising partnerships (both of which are likely to involve commercial beekeepers), will provide a subsidy for equipment to permit over-wintering of nucs (ie polystyrene nucleus boxes) by beekeepers and will provide a subsidy for Varroa medicaments - for participants in the Charter only, of course. Spare over-wintered nucleus stocks may, of course, be sold on when not required to keep up the agreed number of stocks for each operator. Breeding from local stocks will aim to produce stable, productive, healthy and gentle stocks from local Amm-biased mixes. Whether such breeding would be a supported private sector activity, a social enterprise (perhaps a cooperative) or performed by a public body is open to debate. The SBA and Local Associations would be expected to encourage amateur beekeepers to register for this Chartermark and gain the benefits of doing so.

In parallel, there would be funding to establish modern local honey extraction facilities and perhaps a touring mobile facility so that hobby beekeepers can make the transition to semi-commercial activity using food handling procedures of the highest standards for local craft-scale production and sale.

And, of course, there would have to be investment in the detection of unapproved imports of bees and queens, and appropriate fines to act as a deterrent.

[prakel]

A ban on imports is never going to work because they have bees available when people want them. What you need are enough people raising queens, overwintering them, whatever, ready for April/May prepared to undercut the import market rather than impose a premium for local stock for it not to be worthwhile importing bees and we are a million miles away from that. Even the south UK bees that Scotland is buying are still largely imported.

Ah, the crux of the matter. Undercutting the import market.

But why? This seems to me to be a false arguement. Sure, lots of imported queens are sold in the UK but how many average beekeepers actually import the stock themselves? Most 'local guys' probably buy from a handfull of companies who do the importing and then double (or more) the price before selling on. Sure you can buy two queens direct at +/- 15 euros each then you add the health cert and you're probably paying +/- 30 euro each.

All that actually needs to be done on a local level is to offer good quality bees at a price similar to that charged by the UK importers. This of course won't stop the big guys buying in hundreds of queens but it would be a sound start at local level.

[Adam]

Gavin as Prime Minister. Now there's a thought!

One problem with imported bees (apart from crossing with the locals) is that they may well be unsuitable for the Scottish weather and not survive in high numbers over winter. One thing you could say is that the fittest colonies survived. Maybe these should be bred from - better for the long-term.

[Jon]

One thing you could say is that the fittest colonies survived. Maybe these should be bred from - better for the long-term.

I don't think it is that simple - due to the effect of heterosis/hybrid vigour.
if you cross AMM with Carnica you may well get offspring which is hardier than either parent.

If you select this as your breeder stock on the basis of its survival the effect is likely to be lost going forward.
As in F1 hybrid seed.

I think it is imperative to select the hardiest stock within race, eliminating short term effects caused by heterosis.

[drumgerry]

I think the commercial guys will set the tone for the simple reason that they overtly make money.

But do they Neil? And if so how much? How much is the commercial beekeeping sector worth to the Scottish economy that it can justify such subsidies? How many jobs are we saving here? MBC mentioned the salmon farming industry Vs salmon angling and I think the big difference between salmon farming and commercial beekeeping is that it actually does provide jobs in areas where there would otherwise be no jobs. Not that I agree with their pollution of Scottish sea lochs which is linked to the plummeting of seatrout stocks but I can understand the political reality of it. Commercial beekeeping not so much. From what I've read of Murray's operation most of his labour is Eastern European migratory workers.

So I think the subsidy is coming from a "let's save the bees" perspective rather than an economic one. And if so my opinion is that it's based on faulty information which the politicians are getting. Which could be corrected by proper lobbying if we could be arsed to do it.

If imports were to stop (and I don't think purely economic arguments apply here) we'd all have to do for ourselves. Even the commercial guys! But they/we need not to have the choice to import. Incidentally isn't it the case that the UK (as it is at the moment!) can close the borders to imports from the mainland when there's some health concern in the agricultural sector and so not fall foul of EU competition law? As was done recently with Ash trees?

Gavin - where do I sign up?! And I'll vote for you! If your Sustainable Charter is a serious idea you should draw it up in reality and just think of the publicity we could generate with it!

[madasafish]

Gavin's idea is great.

Compulsory registration of course will be needed to make it work. Which means cost. No doubt beekeepers will pay...willingly.

And then there is the slight matter of enforcement and ensuring penalties for non observance and etc etc...

What about importing bees from England? I assume the rules will HAVE to treat those as if imports from abroad: to prevent backdoor importation.. Who is going to man/woman the border crossings?...(see N/S Ireland)

[Dark Bee]

I agree with you DR (post #10), it is likely that imports this year will rival those after the "Isle of Wight Disease". The best way forward is I believe for local bees to be bred, where possible. The difficulties with this have already been identified and expounded upon and there is obviously no easy solution. Large scale importations are not the answer, except perhaps in the short term, but the long term problems will negate any initial benefits.
Interestingly I was reading elsewhere of some hapless individual who sent payment to an overseas supplier for queen bees. When they failed to arrive, he made enquiries from the vendor; he received but little sympathy or help and still has no bees, nor has the vendor been able to show him any evidence they were ever sent. It is not for me to comment on that specific case, but will say because of the present shortages it is obviously an area ripe for exploitation by conmen.

[gavin]

Was I being serious? Well, yes and no. Deliberately provocative perhaps, and certainly keen to get some debate on a better long-term vision rather than the ad hoc reactive and naive stuff that is going on now. I'm thinking, by that ad hoc and naive stuff, government support for something that plainly isn't working and without any linking of the support, that I can see (maybe I'm blind), with improving standards of beekeeping, having additional measures to improve sustainability, making beekeeping management better, or improving the nation's bee stock (unless there is a push going on to convert a large part of the country to Carniolans, which I doubt and which I hope everyone would see as foolish).

Food and Drink really is one of those areas the Scottish Government have identified as important to Scotland and her economy. High quality, well-respected produce with a Scottish character. Aquaculture features highly, and from my recent foray into that field thanks to a research project on providing home-grown protein for salmon feed, I think that a lot of the suspicion of the effect on native stocks may be misplaced. Aquaculture's neonics perhaps. There may be something in it, but the important factors are different and we shouldn't forget them. Anyway, commercial beekeeping particularly in heather areas fits into that Food and Drink priority area very well. OK, the jobs directly in beekeeping are limited (and the East Europeans are lovely people, to a man ... and woman!) but the value of a vibrant Scottish beekeeping sector goes beyond that to retail and even tourism and promoting the country abroad and is seen as a very good thing. But from where I'm sitting, the beekeeping industry needs to get its act together if it wants to give the impression of a sustainable, Scottish, healthy, well regulated industry. It needs to raise its game and it needs to work together to renew itself.

I'm out of the loop as to what is really happening with this £200,000 windfall the beekeeping industry seems to have secured for itself. I could go and chat to folk to see what I can find out, but at the moment there are a lot of calls on my time. However it strikes me as not impossible that some of what is going on might not be so far from that stuff about parnerships with breeder and propagators in other places. Maybe that link Pete posted shows the sort of partner that could help satisfy the demand for early season packages or queens, if it could operate in a way to demonstrate traceability and high health standards.

From what I can see, breeding better bees isn't difficult (bar the occasional disastrous summer-autumn-winter like the one we've just had). Select from your better stocks and deselect those with unwanted traits and your bees get better, as mine have.

As for the SBA, it wavers and changes from time to time, depending on the views of those who do the talking at the top table. Perhaps we should have a Scottish equivalent of the Irish Native Bee Society, but put the focus on breeding better near-Amm bees rather than 100% native, and try to get at least some commercial beekeepers on board? Would that be an impossible task?

Banning imports? If it was phased in (10 years is probably too long) then people should adapt (or get out of beekeeping). Some will put their own measures in place to reduce their commercial risk. Others may move into nuc and queen raising. Or all of the above. Those who do neither but hope that government will bale them out again will go out of commercial beekeeping.

Compulsory registration? No need. The rate is already impressively high in Scotland. More than 1000 already I believe? But part of this could be an obligation on those registering for this chartermark to reveal all of their apiary locations to the authorities. If people break the rules, they would be debarred from using the badge showing that they are beekeepers of quality and presumably their sales would suffer.

[Dark Bee]

My understanding is that the importing of bees cannot be prohibited, because of EU legislation. Perhaps I am mistaken or perhaps we should vote UKIP.:rolleyes:

[madasafish]

My understanding is that the importing of bees cannot be prohibited, because of EU legislation. Perhaps I am mistaken or perhaps we should vote UKIP.:rolleyes:

Of course.. voting UKIP will solve every problem from varroa to stopping the Japanese from building their cars in the UK...

[gavin]

.. voting UKIP ....

Thankfully the Tory-UKIP spat as portrayed in the media lately is a complete irrelevancy from where I'm sitting!

A bit of clarification. The £200k bee farmer restocking subsidy is separate from the EU Apiculture programme (as consulted on and as discussed on here). The latter might have a different kind of approach, who knows. Perhaps it may need to be refocussed to repair the damage done by banning seed treatment neonics (I'm joking! I think.).

There is a little more detail here. (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/04/honey-bees26042013)

And as to the legality of closing the doors to imports .... well, once I'm Prime Minister of Scotland everyone will have to do what I say ! Mwwwwwwwwhaaaaaa! Anyway, the Sustainability Charter thingie wouldn't close the doors to them, just ensure that anything imported met standards of both health and genetic provenance (spelled it right this time).

How does Slovenia manage its closed-doors policy? Can't we do the same?

[gavin]

... (maybe I'm blind) ...

Actually, I think that I am. A message I had today does imply that people are listening. So here's something for the Scottish beekeepers out there. If you were about to give out a subsidy to help commercial beekeepers who have lost quite a lot of stock (bearing in mind of course that beekeeping was always a game where you lost - and made up - stock much more than, say, a sheep or cattle farmer), what conditions would you attach? I mean right now and in 2014.

No carnies? Only carnies? Anything goes? Would you investigate historical (or recent) over-stocking for the available forage before agreeing to each request? All commercial guys are eligible, or only those 'suspected' to be the better beekeepers? How on earth do you exclude those who, informed opinion has it, are not very good at looking after their stock and who lose too many bees too regularly? Is the whole thing daft and should commercial beekeeping in Scotland be allowed to sink? Should any consideration be given to beekeepers whose stocks will be influenced, through drones if nothing else, by high-productivity, high-maintenance (presumably) stocks preferred by those with bank managers breathing down their necks? Should 'restocking' money also be available (presumably to buy in stock from abroad) to smaller-scale beekeepers who sometimes sell to the public? What is the cut-off in terms of size of operation?

Just asking .....

[fatshark]

Re. banning imports (at least until my Right Honourable friend for Tayside becomes PM) ... Going by the plans for an Amm reserve on Colonsay it might be possible to use a simple addition to the relevant act ... something to do with banning non-native species. I can't remember the precise wording but it was on a document that Gavin MP circulated here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1262-SG-consultation-on-an-Amm-reserve-on-Colonsay&p=17073&viewfull=1#post17073).

[Jon]

Isn't George Galloway a Dundee man as well?
Hard act to follow Gavin.
How is your oratory?

[Trog]

What would be the effect of allowing bee farmers to go under if they continued to sustain losses? How may hobby beekeepers get stock from them? Would local associations have sufficient colonies between them to provide pollination services to farmers?

I suppose it could be a good thing. Honey would become a luxury product and worth the expense of keeping bees. Folk might, just might, look after their bees better if there was a good return from honey. On the other hand there might be cheap imports of honey from places where anything goes, rather from our well-regulated UK sources.

Maybe we would end up with the situation that occured during WW2 with folk being encouraged to keep bees by being given extra sugar rations. If we all got subsidised sugar (rather than paying at least £1.09 per kilo), and maybe free or subsidised varroa control products life would be so much easier!

[drumgerry]

A message I had today does imply that people are listening.

So there's some announcement imminent then Gavin? And if so maybe I don't need to try for a meeting with my MSP?


No carnies? Only carnies? Anything goes? Would you investigate historical (or recent) over-stocking for the available forage before agreeing to each request? All commercial guys are eligible, or only those 'suspected' to be the better beekeepers? How on earth do you exclude those who, informed opinion has it, are not very good at looking after their stock and who lose too many bees too regularly? Is the whole thing daft and should commercial beekeeping in Scotland be allowed to sink? Should any consideration be given to beekeepers whose stocks will be influenced, through drones if nothing else, by high-productivity, high-maintenance (presumably) stocks preferred by those with bank managers breathing down their necks? Should 'restocking' money also be available (presumably to buy in stock from abroad) to smaller-scale beekeepers who sometimes sell to the public? What is the cut-off in terms of size of operation?

Just asking .....

I'm not sure I even agree with the principle of the "bailout" to be honest. If I lose a prize herdsire (for those who don't know I breed alpacas for a living!) I don't have the Scottish government rushing in to buy me a replacement. The simple fact is, as it stands, commercial beekeeping operates on an unsustainable business model. Lose your bees, import lots more to make up the numbers - ad infinitum.

A couple of winters back our bee inspector gave us a presentation on the foulbrood outbreaks in the North East and around Inverness. One of the slides she showed was of a commercial guy who had put dozens of colonies on to high elevation heather moors in June. Practically no forage and by the time she saw them the bees were starving. Why should the taxpayer be helping jokers like this?

But if they're going to get help and it seems like they are then I'd have a no imports condition attached. No exceptions. Any bees bought from down south would have to have their provenance established. What I'd actually like to see is (and this'll happen if I beat Gavin in the next election to the Scottish parliament!) - give them money to establish themselves as self sufficient or give them b****r all.

[Dark Bee]

Of course.. voting UKIP will solve every problem from varroa to stopping the Japanese from building their cars in the UK...

Relax old chap, that comment was said in jest - the smiley ought to have given the game away.

[Easy beesy]

I'm backing Gavin! Set up protected conservation areas for Colonsay and Orkney - breeding islands and stop imports. National breeding programme funded by Goverment or like in England lots of private and lottery funding for 'native bee' projects. Mobile extractor facilities funded by 'community' projects - there's lots of money out there, you just have to know how to access it.
Experienced passionate Beekeepers on a Pollinators Panel advising the politicians to make this work. Scottish Heather Honey gains protected food status and is elevated to 'better for you than manuka'.
Always said a beekeeper needs optimism!

[The Drone Ranger]

.
From what I can see, breeding better bees isn't difficult (bar the occasional disastrous summer-autumn-winter like the one we've just had). Select from your better stocks and deselect those with unwanted traits and your bees get better, as mine have.
.

Hi Gavin that works for people with several hives but not for the chap with one or two

If someone with one hive has a bad tempered bees it's a queen issue
If he/she splits or uses a board or just removes the offender the new queen the bees raise will often be as bad as the original
That's why people will fork out for a new queen
Here's where small scale queen breeders who are basically not making a living just a few quid can come in

[gavin]

Isn't George Galloway a Dundee man as well?
Hard act to follow Gavin.
How is your oratory?

Can't you tell from these posts in the last 24 hrs?!

When the US Senate give me the call to go over and explain myself, I'll answer the call, that's for sure.

[gavin]

Here's where small scale queen breeders who are basically not making a living just a few quid can come in

Yes, and beekeeping groups, social enterprises, and the like. Small scale stuff for the amateurs. We're trying to do that at our local association.


So there's some announcement imminent then Gavin? And if so maybe I don't need to try for a meeting with my MSP?


I'd encourage anyone (and especially you!) to speak to their MSP. No announcement imminent, but there are discussions taking place quite soon on how to go about the subsidised 'restocking'. And there will be more information at some stage on the Apiculture Programme, but not yet. I'm still keen to hear what forum members make of this, and what they would do, as some of those involved in the discussions are quite likely to look in.

[Bonita]

Hello, As a beginner to all this, I can only say that my son and I have been trying to get into beekeeping for two years. Experienced bee keepers are saying we should try and gets our Nucs/bees locally, but the local bees have taken a substantial hit. Understandably, local bee keepers want to re-establish their own hives before helping to set up novices. The lure of imported bees then becomes attractive.

[drumgerry]

Well my OH met with Richard Lochhead about another matter and found him to be very responsive so I'm encouraged to give it a try. I think in some ways the time is past for sitting about and expecting the SBA to actually do something to develop a long term strategy for the bees. Yet again it comes down to individuals rather than the organisation set up to serve us. Someone needs to take this issue and make a proper fist of it.

If anyone does take the time to "look in" to this discussion the one thing that I'd hope they'd take away from their visit is that we need to have proper support for a sustainable, self-sufficient future for Scotland's beekeepers. So...no throwing money at associations or businesses who tick the boxes, who fire off the right buzz words about saving the bees. No empty programmes which spread the word about bees and how great they are or fun outings to an apiary for schools for an hour in a beesuit being shown a hive and some brood. These things would be fine a world of unlimited funding but right now we need to focus on priorities.

What I think those priorities should be are -

*A decision to adopt our native bee as "Scotland's honeybee". No more imports. Re the EU - Come 2014 and after we might be negotiating our entry to it from scratch anyway. And how on earth do the Germans deal with import regulations when they want to enforce their Carniolans-only policy?
*Using the model of Germany and Switzerland we go about setting up breeding stations in our upland areas or other isolated parts, train up people like me and Gavin and DR and Kate and anyone else with an interest to run the things. Colonsay can be the start of greater things.
*Take a realistic stance on how many nucs/queens can be produced in our climate and act within those parameters.
*Set about the distribution of native bees the length and breadth of Scotland. Ambitious yes but it beats the world weary "it can't be done" attitude.

I just don't see why when this sort of thing is the norm in other European countries that it can't be made to work here. All it takes is the political will, the proper funding and the recruitment of the right people.

[prakel]

I think that one of the keys to getting investment for a national breeding programme using the native bee is to get some serious bee breeders working on improving/developing breeding lines first so that you've an economically enticing beast to promote rather than a National Treasure to save from extinction. It's that pitch 'what's in it for me' that the people looking at signing over money for restocking will be attracted to.

This is only going to happen if people invest their own money and a lot of effort up front and would probably be too heavy a remit for the average local breeding group (if Jon's reports on the work division within his group are the norm).

[prakel]

Should 'restocking' money also be available (presumably to buy in stock from abroad) to smaller-scale beekeepers who sometimes sell to the public? What is the cut-off in terms of size of operation?

Just asking .....

That magic 40 number springs to mind for some reason....

[The Drone Ranger]

Hello, As a beginner to all this, I can only say that my son and I have been trying to get into beekeeping for two years. Experienced bee keepers are saying we should try and gets our Nucs/bees locally, but the local bees have taken a substantial hit. Understandably, local bee keepers want to re-establish their own hives before helping to set up novices. The lure of imported bees then becomes attractive.

Hi Bonita
Your situation is not unusual
The bees you get might not have to be imported
I don't know the local situation but I have found this initiative on the web
http://www.kelvinvalleyhoney.org.uk/Equipment.asp
They might help but I have my doubts

I don't know anything about these people but you can find them on the web
http://www.the-beeman.co.uk/open-for-inspection-25-w.asp
Has anyone on the forum visited them or know about the company?

You are not far from Glasgow so hopefully someone will contact you to help
There are lists of local associations on SBA website
http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/About/LocalAssociations.aspx

[drumgerry]

I think that one of the keys to getting investment for a national breeding programme using the native bee is to get some serious bee breeders working on improving/developing breeding lines first so that you've an economically enticing beast to promote rather than a National Treasure to save from extinction.

I see it as being the other way round Prakel. Without the investment the breeding won't happen. Without a major change in our approach to the problem things will just go on as they always have done. That consists of enthusiasts investing their time and their own money and everything happening at a local level. BIBBA has promoted this approach and they think it's working. I disagree. I think the time for a local, piecemeal approach has come and gone.

And I don't see using native bees/AMM as some sort of preservation exercise. How can trying to make ourselves self-sufficient in bees make anything other than economic sense?

[Jon]

Bonita.
If you want to get into beekeeping buy the basic equipment, brood box, frames, floor and roof.
Set it up in a site where you may attract a swarm.
This is known as a bait box and there is loads of info about this on the internet
If you get a swarm and you are not happy with its behaviour you can requeen it later.
This year there will be a shortage of bees but later in the summer there should be plenty of local queens.

[Jon]

I think that one of the keys to getting investment for a national breeding programme using the native bee is to get some serious bee breeders working on improving/developing breeding lines first so that you've an economically enticing beast to promote rather than a National Treasure to save from extinction.

In Ireland we have the Galtee Bee Breeding group which has been doing bee improvement on a reasonable scale for over 20 years.
The bees are excellent, very docile and not too swarmy.
There would be at least 1000 colonies involved owned by members of the group.

Look at the protection the demonstrator is wearing

1497

One of the reasons for the creation of the Native Irish Honeybee society is the need to scale up - as the Galtee group cannot meet the demand for queens. At a meeting earlier on this month Michael Mac reckoned they could sell 4 or 5 times more queens than they can produce. They are completely sold out with queens prepaid for 2013. I ordered a dozen for some local beekeepers in January and they were basically booked out at that point.
There is a need to scale things up which is where NIHBS comes in as we need to get supply in line with demand.

[prakel]

drumgerry, this is the issue though, the main negotiations will undoubtedly involve the beefarmer's representatives who, I'd speculate, will aim to maintain the import option even if they don't use it every year themselves. They know better than anyone whether they can be self sufficient year on year with regards to successfully mating economically viable queens.

I can't see large scale funds being given to start breeding from scratch; you need something 'good' to offer to begin with. Something which the money people can see is not too far from being ready for mass breeding and distribution.

The mention of Bibba's apparent lack of progress (at least during their first fourty years) is something which I'm sure many people who are pro-imports are only too happy to take to the table.

Money talks which is perhaps one of the drivers behind the German efforts throughout last century not being devoted to their own native bee.

Your copmment


...That consists of enthusiasts investing their time and their own money and everything happening at a local level. BIBBA has promoted this approach and they think it's working. I disagree. I think the time for a local, piecemeal approach has come and gone.

is what I myself touched on with regard to it not being a job for local groups. So, who's going to do it? I don't know. 1st obstacle.

I'm certainly not against (in any way) your general ideas but I do think that there's a bit of a chicken and egg issue here with regard to whether you're likely to see the money at the start to improve the bee of further down the line to ramp up production once proven breeding lines have been stabilized.

Apologies for a bit of a disjointed post.

[Dark Bee]

[QUOTE=Jon;17787]In Ireland we have the Galtee Bee Breeding group which has been doing bee improvement on a reasonable scale for over 20 years.
The bees are excellent, very docile and not too swarmy.
There would be at least 1000 colonies involved owned by members of the group............................................. ..................................................

QUOTE]

Jon, the success of this group owes a great deal to Micheal Mac Giolla Coda. It was his foresight that initiated the movement to promote the native bee and his genius that brought the association to where it is today. It is inevitiable that a nation wide association would be formed to expand his work. I view as an endorsement of the success of his practices and policies, the abuse of those who (allegedly) favour the bee referred to as the Buckfast bee; both on their website and on another UK beekeeping forum. If a person cannot argue politely, then he has already lost the argument. Can there be any greater validation of a movements success than those opposed to it being only able to voice their opposition by being abusive?

[Jon]

I have been trying to avoid arguments with the Buckfast people and the importers even though some of them do spread disinformation about our native bee.
I think the best way to win people over is to show them that AMM is fit for purpose, ie positive campaigning - highlighting that it can be productive, gentle and not too swarmy.
Micheal Mac Giolla Coda should have a job in the diplomatic service as he is a shrewd operator and a good motivator.

To get back on topic about getting infrastructure in place, it is imperative that we move beyond what Prakel called the 'national treasure' mentality and into some more organised local queen rearing so that the queens are available to those who want AMM and those who do not want to import queens, with all the risks that entails.

[prakel]

Jon, just a thought/question. An organization such as the new Irish Bee Society which has already 200 members (as per your other thread on the subject) may well at some point (a couple of years down the road?) have funds available to hire a part time staff member afforded the job of breeding from the best lines that the association can develope nationwide. This could of course be done on a voluntary basis but the cash incentive would illimate lack of progress due to pressures on time etc. As a job, the breeder would be expected to put in the contracted hours -and account for them. Further, if for any reason the employee didn't work out you'd find it easier to remove him/her from the position than if it was a hard working volunteer giving their time and knowledge freely.

Where would the breeding stock come from? How about local groups pooling their best queens on a regional level and then sending the best from those to the central breeding station. Not my own idea but a hodge-podge of different plans and methods which I believe are already in use elsewhere although I can't necessarily remember the exact sources.

[Jon]

Hi prakel
I don't think you need to employ a dedicated queen rearer.
My personal vision would be to work as a kind of collective but maybe that is just old hippie nonsense.
With regard to the Belfast group which is still really in its infancy, we have about 40 members who own from 1-30 apideas.
A lot of the members are relative beginners.
In total there are well over 100 apideas, maybe 150.
In theory that could produce 200+ mated queens in a season
The problem is establishing the market.
You need to be able to sell the queens when they are ready or get them into nucs with a view to selling the nucs.
My preference would be to overwinter nucs for spring supply.
The plan is to work out a payment structure for the participants in the programme, something like £25 per mated queen and £20 for a frame of brood and adhering bees.
depending upon who has a spare queen in an apidea or enough bees to make up a nuc or two, these could come from anyone.
Everyone who works should get some reward for their labour but noone is going to get rich on this.
I mentioned earlier that this year we are going to have a big shortage of bees for making up nucs due to heavy winter losses but in a better year that should not be a problem
The problem is establishing the market.
At the end of the summer I usually have a couple of dozen mated queens but all I get is sob stories from people who want one for nothing.
Some people cadge a queen then stick it in a nuc and sell it on for £120 to someone else.
Call me old fashioned but that is ripping the arse out of goodwill.
The Galtee group has it sussed as if you want a queen you pay for it six months in advance.
We maybe need to look at something like that in the future but it takes a while to get a reputation for producing quality queens.
I am wary of taking orders then failing to deliver. We need to get a bit more experience in that area.


Where would the breeding stock come from?

That's not a problem.
There are a considerable number of beekeepers in Ireland with good stock.
The Galtee group for a start and at least half a dozen others where you could get a good queen to graft from.
I always have several queens of my own I would be happy to graft from.

We are planning to develop this with two other neighbouring associations and some of them have good stock.

PS. NIHBS managed to get 3500 Euro from a Government Dept already.

[prakel]

Some people cadge a queen then stick it in a nuc and sell it on for £120 to someone else.
Call me old fashioned but that is ripping the arse out of goodwill.

Jon, this is something that I touched on at the top of this thread regarding whether proof of genuine losses would be required before restocking funding was allocated to individuals.

P.S. Nice post (#59) which doesn't require further specific comment from me!

[The Drone Ranger]

Bonita.
If you want to get into beekeeping buy the basic equipment, brood box, frames, floor and roof.
Set it up in a site where you may attract a swarm.
This is known as a bait box and there is loads of info about this on the internet
If you get a swarm and you are not happy with its behaviour you can requeen it later.
This year there will be a shortage of bees but later in the summer there should be plenty of local queens.

That's good advice it does work plus the bees are free.
You need a couple of used empty brood frames (a local beekeeper will give you those gratis)
Also it helps to put in a couple of drawn empty super combs
Swarms usually like to build their own comb right away below the super frames
A new Hive box with new frames and foundation won't work most of the time

[Jimbo]

Bonita
Our local area rep has suggested that if Associations provide nucs for their members and there are spare nucs going then these can be offered to other local associations in the West area who require nucs for their members. My association is next to the Dunoon association and will be participating in this scheme. I would speak to your local association secretary or contact the west area rep (Mike Thornley)

[The Drone Ranger]

Great stuff Jimbo
Last year was wet and horrid followed by endless winter but if we have a good summer I'm going to make sure I have some spare bees in future to help other people
Three people have asked me for bees this year so far and I haven't been able to help any of them because I don't have enough strong colonies.
I haven't given anyone bees for years now since before the EFB in Angus and Perthshire when everyone was asked not to sell or move bees and also as they are hybrid types I don't want friction with black bee enthusiasts

[Jimbo]

Personally I don't care if they are pure Amm or hybrids as long as they are local, disease free and not agressive. This should give any beginner a good start and can be improved in the future

[The Drone Ranger]

Going back to the original post
I can't see how giving cash to commercial beekeepers makes any sense
They are not economically important their bees are not needed on rape or heather
I doubt there is much tax revenue for Scotland from their honey sales
They are not employers of any importance except of migrant workers
The money they spend on buying stocks leaves the country
They go their own way irrespective of public opinion and subvert funding initiatives like the Co-op
So where is the case for subsidies ?
Would they be missed? I doubt it
(flack jacket on )

[drumgerry]

No need for a flak jacket with me DR! As you can probably tell from my earlier posts on the subject. I don't wish ill of commercial beekeepers though but equally I don't see why they should be getting help when there's so many better ways £200k could be used.

[gavin]

That's called trolling DR! And at this time of year they're unlikely to have the time to defend themselves. Maybe I should.

1. Significant UK honey sales of traditional Scottish product, esp heather honey. What, 100 tons? 200 in a semi-decent year? Wild guess. Might be way out.

2. Previous significant export market for quality product, eg heather honey to Germany. Need better summers and in some cases better beekeeping to make it happen.

3. Some types of sale contribute to the tourist experience. Another important Scottish earner.

4. Pollination services to soft fruit growers. Also wild plants.

5. Employment extends to retail, packing and the like. Not all direct beekeeping employees are from outside Scotland. Some of the East Europeans are permanent residents and those I've met are lovely folk. I greatly welcome their presence and I'm sure most people do.

6. There is potential for expansion, for quality schemes, for pressure to shift away from the less sustainable approaches to the more, essentially to shift commercial beekeeping more towards an industry that Scotland can be proud of.

7. Potential to blur the boundaries between large-scale and craft-scale. Upgrading and sharing extraction facilities, discounted consumables.

8. What about a (near-native, selected, productive, gentle) queen raising industry in collaboration with or run by commercial beekeepers.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[prakel]

Assuming that the recipients of any such funding are running viable businesses is there any reason that it couldn't be worked along the lines of a loan (with maybe a two year grace period) rather than a subsidy, with the interest being earmarked for a native/local breeding project of some description. Make the money work twice.

[drumgerry]

Gavin - according to this Scottish Government page http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2005/11/22121939, 99% of beekeeping activity in Scotland is carried out non-commercially. Admittedly it dates from 2005 but I'd imagine if anything there's more amateurs around now than then. So I'm sceptical that the commercial beekeeping guys add a huge amount to Scotland's beekeeping life. I agree all of the points you list are things of value but most of them are being done by amateurs. Not at all opposed to Eastern European workers (we have plenty of them here in Speyside and very nice they are too) but again I don't see why their jobs merit subsidies when no-one else's do.

I'm firmly of the belief that we need a radical change in how we go about our queen rearing/breeding but I don't see the commercial guys as the people to be given the charge to do it.

[The Drone Ranger]

That's called trolling DR!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
http://www.duchyoriginals.com/Heather_Honey.php

I don't think it is trolling
The purpose of subsidy would be to create a beneficial outcome for Scotland
Hence subsidising affordable housing etc has general support
Normally Government spending of this type should be directed to stimulate a local economy or enhance employment chances
By giving money to private companies who will spend it on imports and create no new jobs the money is wasted
Perhaps New Zealand would like to chip in since they will be the greatest beneficiaries of a bad season for these beekeeping enterprises
They should be covered by insurance

[The Drone Ranger]

http://www.nuffieldinternational.org/rep_pdf/1334486301Andrew_Scarlett_edited_report.pdf
Good report author is a fairly large commercial beekeeper

note P23
"one off subsidy for the commercial sector"

p27
"Keep your eyes on a trial by P J Stirling Ltd whereby bees are delivering fungicides reduce the spraying need for botrytis"

P28
"A study was carried out at the New York Experimental Station between 1994 and 1997
which showed that fungicide delivered by bees reduced spraying by half and increased seeds in the
strawberries by 22% and the fruit weight between 26% and 40% more than berries in non-visited
treatments."

"This is something we will trial with the farm next year and will investigate whether there is any funding for a properly controlled evaluation."

Anybody heard anything about this ?
Are bees in commercial operations being considered as carriers of fungicides to flowering fruit ?

[fatshark]

From reports I heard today I think about £200,000 of (packaged) bees have just been imported in the last couple of days.

[A rather noteworthy comment I thought, so I've placed this part of fatshark's post into the relevant thread. The whole post is still in the 'Varroa-free queens' thread which was on the topic of a request for a queen in an apparently Varroa-free area. I should just add that my understanding was that the £200k subsidised imports would be spread over two seasons. G.]