Bayer spokesman on Radio 4 Today

[Jon]

This was on this morning at 7.51

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/listen_again/default.stm

[Trog]

So it was. Heard some of it. What do folk here think?

[Jon]

He must be sick of hearing UK journalists tell him that honeybees are in decline when in actual fact there has been quite an increase in UK colony numbers over the past few years.
Just goes to show that the old adage of a lie becoming the truth if it is repeated often enough appears to work.

Re the accumulation of neonicotinoids in soils, there is conflicting evidence re. the duration.
Can that be managed? Probably - with adequate crop rotation making sure that they are not applied year after year to the same ground.
They grow maize year in year out on the same ground in the US so I can see how this could become a problem.

Are seed treated crops such as maize and oil seed rape harming bees?
Very unlikely as these crops are ubiquitous in the UK and beekeepers are not reporting problems.
Not only are they not reporting problems but the commercial guys bring their bees to the oil seed rape for build up and a honey crop.

Are neonicotinoids bad for pollinators other than honey bees?
Jury still out as there is limited research.
One of the few interesting points which came out of the parliamentary submissions was that the honeybee may not be the best sentinel species due to its unique colony structure. Other pollinators may be more vulnerable.
This could also explain Dave Goulson's findings in the Stirling bumblebee study although there are some criticisms of the methodology.

[gavin]

Totally agree with that, and indeed with Julian Little's comments in the broadcast. Although I'd like to know more about the controversy over soil half-life in the UK.

[Neils]

I wonder if the soil half life is the next step, having tried and failed to get guttation, pollen or nectar levels linked to problems. If so does it mean that the focus will shift to the slug preservation society I wonder?

Julian Little is one of those public figures I dislike on general principle but I guess we have to include the BBC within the conspiracy off the back of that interview; within the framework of the pointless, ignorant and superficial questions asked he sounded like Muhammed Ali.

While the discussion is framed solely around honeybees this is going to bat backwards and forwards. I get why it's about honeybees but no other wildlife organisation that I'm a member of (and I'm a member of few) has this issue on their radar and I wonder why that is.

[Johnthefarmer]

I wonder if the soil half life is the next step, having tried and failed to get guttation, pollen or nectar levels linked to problems. If so does it mean that the focus will shift to the slug preservation society I wonder?



If it is the case that these neurotoxins build up levels in soils after repeated croppings, it is pretty poor of you, Neils to suggest that slugs would be the main casualties.


We all know that soils are host to lots of different bugs, insects and others. Without diverse lifeforms our soil becomes degraded and loses its vitality.

I'm not very knowledgeable about slugs, but I'd be suprised if even they didn't play some welcome role in the life within the soil.

[Jon]

Not if you grow spuds!

[greengumbo]

Not if you grow spuds!

Are these doses realistic ?

Earthworm protection league might be out in force !

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16406588

[Bumble]

I don't know any farmers who grow the same crop on the same ground year after year, unless it's permanent planting for fruit or nuts, and there's usually a buffer between crops in the form of a hedge or other barrier which would stop creepage so I can't see how there can be any ongoing build up in the soil.

Slugs are about the only thing I've grown this year, but recipes are scarce.

[greengumbo]

I don't know any farmers who grow the same crop on the same ground year after year, unless it's permanent planting for fruit or nuts, and there's usually a buffer between crops in the form of a hedge or other barrier which would stop creepage so I can't see how there can be any ongoing build up in the soil.

Slugs are about the only thing I've grown this year, but recipes are scarce.

Yum.

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/chefs/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall/tomato-sauce-for-slugs-recipe

;)

[Bumble]

Yum.

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/chefs/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall/tomato-sauce-for-slugs-recipe

;)

Ugh!

I even followed the link to the video http://www.channel4.com/services/videoplayer/popup.jsp?name=hugh_slugs_a